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Top 100 Recruits and Wake's Current Recruiting Strategy

Haros

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In light of our miserable season and alleged shift in recruiting strategy I decided to dig into a number of areas to see what I could come up with as possible reasons for our recent failures (not just last year) and how those, if viewed by those in charge of our athletic department, could lead to tweaking our overall strategy.

Below, I've listed every top 100 RSCI ranking recruit landed by Wake since the 2003 class:

2003: Chris Paul (#7) Went to NBA after 2 years.
Jeremy Ingram (#67) Transferred to ECU.

2004: None.

2005: David Weaver (#73) Redshirted a year and played out his eligibility.
Kevin Swinton (#76) Transferred to NAIA school.

2006: Jamie Skeen (#50) Transferred to VCU
Anthony Gurley (#56) Transferred to UMass

2007: James Johnson (#43) NBA after two years.
Jeff Teague (#58) NBA after two years

2008: Al-farouq Aminu (#7) NBA after 2 years.
Ty Walker (#37) He's Ty Walker.
Tony Woods (#41) Transferred.

2009: Ari Stewart (#39) Transferred to USC

By my count, that's 12 players in the top 100 over those 7 years, whose classes have completed more than 1 year of college.
1 (David Weaver) has graduated.
1 more (Ty Walker) looks likely to play out his eligibility
4 left after their sophomore seasons for the pros.
6 left via transfer.

Even beyond those top 100 players, we had 4 other transfers during that same 7 year stretch.

I don't know if this is bad luck, a systemic issue, or more likely a combination. But it has left us without our most innately talented players in the years they are likely to help us the most. You have to consistently have talent to win consistently, and we've had some of it. It just hasn't stayed all that long, especially in comparison to those schools that are more successful in the postseason. We could handle the NBA defections if we didn't have the attition from the other guys who are supposed to be our best players simultaneously. Even beyond those playerIt's also something we likely have to change if we expect to ever win big.

I don't for a second believe that we will try to win with diamonds in the rough with 5-star hearts, essentially taking lesser talent than we could recruit. The background and work ethic of a player can be considerations of course, but if you expect to win there is no substitute for talent, and our coaching staff definitely knows this. Every coaching staff knows this. What can change, and possibly has changed, is the level of due diligence performed on the players we are going after.

From here on this post is all speculation and opinion, but my guess is the coaching staff is going after players of the same talent level or potential that we've seen, but with a better head on their shoulders and potentially more well rounded games coming in. That's outside the view that we're looking for players who are better able to handle the academic/social side of things, as 3 of the above transfers could be at least partially attributable to academic/character issues, and at least 1 more due to homesickness/culture shock, rather than purely for basketball reasons. I have no idea how much that impacts our decision making.

There are team fit considerations as well. How versatile are the players in their ability to play multiple positions, and how well do they fit together on the floor. I don't think the previous coach placed enough importance on that as opposed to just bringing in the best talent possible. Guys like Mckie, Rountree, and CMM seem to exemplify what the coaching staff look for from a character and talent perspective, and while I don't see our overall talent level falling off, I am finally seeing how the shift could potentially manifest itself in an improved product on the floor. I'm still skeptical of other areas, but far less so on the recruiting front than I had been about 6 months ago. Especially if we do land Katenda.
 
A related post I made on another thread a few weeks ago:
Duke board on kyrie v. Cp3

Our recruiting between Paul and Johnson/Teague was atrocious.

Starting May 5, 2002
2003 - Chris Paul
2003 - Todd Hendley (transfer)
2003 - Jeremy Ingram (transfer)
2003 - Kyle Visser (All-ACC as a senior)
2004 - Cameron Stanley (grad transfer)
2005 - Kevin Swinton (transfer)
2005 - David Weaver
2005 - Harvey Hale
2005 - Shamaine Dukes (transfer)
2006 - Jamie Skeen (transfer)
2006 - LD Williams (multi-year starter)
2006 - Anthony Gurley (transfer)
2006 - Ish Smith (All-ACC as a senior)
2006 - Chas McFarland (multi-year starter)
2007 - Casey Crawford (transfer)

Ending August 26, 2006 when James Johnson verballed

Over four years of recruiting:
1 All-World player who left as a sophomore
2 All-ACC seniors
2 other multi-year starters
2 part-time starters/reserves
8 transfers
 
How good would Wake have been in 2010 if no one had transferred:

Skeen, Gurley, Ish, LD, Weaver, Chas, Aminu, Walker, Teague, Johnson

LOLZ
 
A certain level of talent and athleticism is important, but if the last few years of college basketball has taught us anything, experience and maturity are far more valuable in the college game than talent (unless that talent comes with experience and maturity, but most of the talent hauls ass after two years these days). The reason the mid majors make runs in the tourney now is because they are always stacked with Jr and Sr players and are reasonably but not overwhelimingly athletic.
 
Well we didn't land Katenda.

Between Haros and PH, it goes to show that our recruiting from 2003-2006 was awful, and that we weren't able to keep the talent we did bring in. Great combination. It explains the 2006 and 2007 results well. No one behind the seniors in 2006, and nothin there in 2007. It was just a not as bad version of 2011. We need to start landing some of the 50-100 guys and have them actually stick around 3/4 years.

Johnson and Teague leaving was bad luck, but I'm starting to believe that there was some systematic problem seeing that number of transfers. Does anyone know what could have caused that kind of exodus?
 
Good post, but lumping together early departures for the NBA and transfers seems a little misleading. Keeping NBA-caliber talent for two seasons is probably about average. In AFA's class, for example, I think all but one player among the RSCI top-10 left after one or two seasons.

The only explanations I can think of for the high number of transfers are an unusual amount of coaching turnover and Prosser/Gaudio's success at recruiting players that may not have ordinarily considered a school like Wake, but I'm just guessing.
 
Good post, but lumping together early departures for the NBA and transfers seems a little misleading. Keeping NBA-caliber talent for two seasons is probably about average. In AFA's class, for example, I think all but one player among the RSCI top-10 left after one or two seasons.

The only explanations I can think of for the high number of transfers are an unusual amount of coaching turnover and Prosser/Gaudio's success at recruiting players that may not have ordinarily considered a school like Wake, but I'm just guessing.

If EVER there was a reason for culture change, I hope it had to do with so many of our players transferring, rather than being an excuse to write them off as un-coachable and problematic. We need good players, and we need them to stay for 2+ years.
 
A related post I made on another thread a few weeks ago:
Duke board on kyrie v. Cp3
So why did people think we were supposed to win games back then? That's not much of a supporting cast and when the NBAers left and Woods departed, the cupboard was bare except for fresh and 2 sophs.

I think Dino left us with much better base talent and IMO Bzz is picking up where he left off. We may have missed with Katenda, but there will be others. I hope he just doesn't throw that scholly to a warm body just for the hell of it.
 
Here's what I find kind of funny about the list of recruits from '03 to '07, that is the fact that each of these recruits was touted by board members as being better than their rankings. We were always told to trust the coaches that they knew what they were doing and we wouldn't be bringing in these guys if they weren't ACC level players.

Mention a weakness in the player's game and you waited for the slings and arrows to come in terms of being called coach basher, UNC fan etc.

Fast forward to this year, and without exception, each recruit at the time of their verbal was questioned about their ability, star ranking etc. Apparently, these commitments added more proof to Bz's incompetence. Later, they made impressive showings in certain events, and some folks had to backtrack a little.

We had a terrible season, Bz is not a fan friendly coach, sounds kind of arrogant and all that. Still, cut the guy a little slack and let's see what he can do with his own players. He can't be as incompetent as many here want to portray him to be, just isn't logical.
 
Here's what I find kind of funny about the list of recruits from '03 to '07, that is the fact that each of these recruits was touted by board members as being better than their rankings. We were always told to trust the coaches that they knew what they were doing and we wouldn't be bringing in these guys if they weren't ACC level players.

Mention a weakness in the player's game and you waited for the slings and arrows to come in terms of being called coach basher, UNC fan etc.

Fast forward to this year, and without exception, each recruit at the time of their verbal was questioned about their ability, star ranking etc. Apparently, these commitments added more proof to Bz's incompetence. Later, they made impressive showings in certain events, and some folks had to backtrack a little.

We had a terrible season, Bz is not a fan friendly coach, sounds kind of arrogant and all that. Still, cut the guy a little slack and let's see what he can do with his own players. He can't be as incompetent as many here want to portray him to be, just isn't logical.

I think a lot of posters are probably lashing out due to feeling like they got tricked about the current recruits. The general consensus is that the class of 2010 did not live up to its billing (a ludicrous suggestion after one season) despite being highly recruited players. As such, many posters are afraid that things will be doubly worse with the new recruits since they weren't highly recruited in the first place. Don't want to put words into anyone's mouth, but that's how I interpret lots of the backlash.

Personally, my thought on the matter is that recruiting solely under-the-radar players is not the recipe for consistent success. Now obviously we didn't find consistency under the Prosser/Gaudio "shoot for the stars" method either. A happy medium is needed. Having a good mixture of solid, under-the-radar role players combined with the occasional star is that happy medium, but in order for [Redacted] to get there he will have to butt heads with the big guys (which he has been hesitant to do imho) and win some 4 and 5 star recruits away from them.

A further note that Skip was definitely headed towards that happy medium. 2008-2010 would have been an awesome stretch if things had gone according to plan. We would have had an experienced core (Ish, LD, Teague, DWeav, MacFarland) as well as some stars (AFA, JJ, Skeen). What could have been.
 
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Here's what I find kind of funny about the list of recruits from '03 to '07, that is the fact that each of these recruits was touted by board members as being better than their rankings. We were always told to trust the coaches that they knew what they were doing and we wouldn't be bringing in these guys if they weren't ACC level players.

Mention a weakness in the player's game and you waited for the slings and arrows to come in terms of being called coach basher, UNC fan etc.

Fast forward to this year, and without exception, each recruit at the time of their verbal was questioned about their ability, star ranking etc. Apparently, these commitments added more proof to Bz's incompetence. Later, they made impressive showings in certain events, and some folks had to backtrack a little.

We had a terrible season, Bz is not a fan friendly coach, sounds kind of arrogant and all that. Still, cut the guy a little slack and let's see what he can do with his own players. He can't be as incompetent as many here want to portray him to be, just isn't logical.

As you already said, people that supported our last staff(s) seemed to over-rate our prior recruits. And what you take from that is that people are now underrating our current recruits?
 
Just commenting on the negative attitudes toward Bz regardless of what he does compared to how everything was wonderful with previous coaches regardless of what they did.

There ought to be a reasonable middle ground in there somewhere.
 
Just commenting on the negative attitudes toward Bz regardless of what he does compared to how everything was wonderful with previous coaches regardless of what they did.

There ought to be a reasonable middle ground in there somewhere.

Skip and Dino were significantly more likeable than [Redacted] plus were much more popular hires from the get-go.
 
Just commenting on the negative attitudes toward Bz regardless of what he does compared to how everything was wonderful with previous coaches regardless of what they did.

There ought to be a reasonable middle ground in there somewhere.

You think everything was wonderful with Coach Gaudio no matter what he did? Were you on the boards at the end of any of his three seasons?
 
Yeah, seriously.. where were you for Gaudio? He got destroyed on the boards.

The only person to blame for Buzz not endearing himself to the fans is Buzz.
 
I can only speak for myself but Coach Bz, must at least make an effort to turn his image around. I realize winning is key to that transition but this coming season looks pretty rocky without more interior strength. It would be in everybody's interest for him to seem less prickly.
 
Yeah, seriously.. where were you for Gaudio? He got destroyed on the boards.

You think everything was wonderful with Coach Gaudio no matter what he did? Were you on the boards at the end of any of his three seasons?

Especially when the person raising that argument was one of the lead Gaudio critics.

This idea that Bzzzz is being bashed no matter what he does is complete bunk.

He got bashed for leading Wake to the worst season in school history and recruiting a bunch of sleepers.

Positive reviews of some of his recruits has led to some positive comments by the fanbase.
 
Especially when the person raising that argument was one of the lead Gaudio critics.

This idea that Bzzzz is being bashed no matter what he does is complete bunk.

He got bashed for leading Wake to the worst season in ACC HISTORY and recruiting a bunch of sleepers.

Positive reviews of some of his recruits has led to some positive comments by the fanbase.

Fixed it.
 
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