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Transgender Athletes

myDeaconmyhand said:
It’s extremely disheartening that we have a handful of posters on this board who encourage the fear mongering, segregation, and ostracism of transpeople - transwomen specifically. These attitudes are enabling a national transphobia, a fear and hatred that very literally endangers transpeople - school children.
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it's a huge bummer that otherwise good posters are deciding to align themselves with the Renaults and pinochas of the world.
 
It's a bummer that you get labeled "transphobic" for holding these two thoughts in your head:

1. I support a trans persons right to life and happiness.
2. I believe that trans women should not compete against biological women.


Still waiting on why we were asking if we had daughters..
 
Because maybe true happiness comes with playing competitively against their identified gender
 
pinochadeac said:
It's a bummer that you get labeled "transphobic" for holding these two thoughts in your head:

1. I support a trans persons right to life and happiness.
2. I believe that trans women should not compete against biological women.


Still waiting on why we were asking if we had daughters..
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You are getting labeled as transphobic for the following comments:

pinochadeac said:
It's about protecting competition and the just out of this world thinking that it would take to think that putting a man, with a cock, against an ole fashioned, menstruating woman is fair.
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pinochadeac said:
They aren't, in fact, women.

They will have to get prostate exams at 45, regardless of the surgeries etc.

We can all be respectful and call them her, but they aren't women the same way someobe born with Uterus is. That's just how it works.
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pinochadeac said:
Ah.. Daughters with penises?
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All of which don't support a trans person's right to life and happiness, because it denies that trans women are women. You invalidate their life and experience and, at best from what I've gleaned from your posts, that being trans is a mental illness. All of that is transphobic and the reason why it's really fucking hard to be be trans in this country.
 
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Thank you for an actual answer.

I think it's something your are born with, so probably more akin to a disability than a mental illness. People with certain disabilities can't do things that "normal" people can. That's just the cards that they were dealt.

Agree that it must be very hard to be trans, and I would say in any country, not just the US.

"Phobia" implies a fear. The trans woman at my Lowes knows her way around the fastener isle better than any of the geriatrics that patrol that store offering help. There is no fear. She is a she. She also would need to play on the mens team.. she's like 6"8 - 275+.
 
pinochadeac said:
Thank you for an actual answer.

I think it's something your are born with, so probably more akin to a disability than a mental illness. People with certain disabilities can't do things that "normal" people can. That's just the cards that they were dealt.

Agree that it must be very hard to be trans, and I would say in any country, not just the US.

"Phobia" implies a fear. The trans woman at my Lowes knows her way around the fastener isle better than any of the geriatrics that patrol that store offering help. There is no fear. She is a she. She also would need to play on the mens team.. she's like 6"8 - 275+.
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Saying this, directly contradicts when you say, "They aren't, in fact, women."

you seem to be advocating for a culture/society that people who are trans are situationally treated differently, or even are functionally differing genders.

I don't jump into these conversations too much, because I think we as a culture elevate the importance of sports too much and my take is why are sports more important than the safety, wholeness, and well being of people. But I also see the benefit of sports and being part of a team and I think it's bullshit to deny trans women (and trans men and enbys) that opportunity - especially in their formative years, like middle/high school sports where fewer than 1% of athletes will even play in college, much less for money.
 
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pinochadeac said:
Thank you for an actual answer.

I think it's something your are born with, so probably more akin to a disability than a mental illness. People with certain disabilities can't do things that "normal" people can. That's just the cards that they were dealt.

Agree that it must be very hard to be trans, and I would say in any country, not just the US.

"Phobia" implies a fear. The trans woman at my Lowes knows her way around the fastener isle better than any of the geriatrics that patrol that store offering help. There is no fear. She is a she. She also would need to play on the mens team.. she's like 6"8 - 275+.
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Live footage of pinocha:

df3ec74d4701bff44ebf9e0cc8575ef82e2e69cf.gif
 
All of the same people insisting that trans women be forced to play on men's sports teams would be absolutely disgusted if a openly trans woman ended up on the roster of their favorite men's baseball or football team. The hate comments would be staggering.

I think that tells you all that you need to know about the position of those people.
 
Interesting. You think I am advocating for a culture/society where people who are trans are treated situationally differently.

Meanwhile, I think it is you who is doing that.

I think this is the ultimate divide here..

By saying "transwomen are women", and acting like you can't tell that she used to be a he, I think you asking everyone to pretend that what is obvious isn't obvious. It's a real Ron Wellman, basketball situation. It's disingenuous at best and trans people must know that people are just playing along. They aren't dumb.

Why not just be like, "oh cool, you are trans... the trans race is at 2:30?"

This whole concept of invalidating someone's life and experience is strange. Why does your life and experience involve me? I am polite. I say she. However, I can't turn off my brain and believe that it isn't a man who has done everything to be a woman, but can never actually be a woman, and feel a little sorry for them.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
man, it would blow pinochet' mind if he ran into a cis woman who knew where to find fasteners at lowe's
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They usually stick to the check out counter.

It would also blow my mind to find a man who uses the term "cis" that knew anything about the fastener section.
 
pinochadeac said:
Interesting. You think I am advocating for a culture/society where people who are trans are treated situationally differently.

Meanwhile, I think it is you who is doing that.

I think this is the ultimate divide here..

By saying "transwomen are women", and acting like you can't tell that she used to be a he, I think you asking everyone to pretend that what is obvious isn't obvious. It's a real Ron Wellman, basketball situation. It's disingenuous at best and trans people must know that people are just playing along. They aren't dumb.

Why not just be like, "oh cool, you are trans... the trans race is at 2:30?"

This whole concept of invalidating someone's life and experience is strange. Why does your life and experience involve me? I am polite. I say she. However, I can't turn off my brain and believe that it isn't a man who has done everything to be a woman, but can never actually be a woman, and feel a little sorry for them.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you have said that trans women (and we'll keep it there, because I don't see people complaining about trans men being on men's teams, although I do see folks complaining about trans men being on women's teams, which I think is contradictory, but a digression from this conversation) are women except when it comes to sports - that's what I was referring to when it seems you are advocating for situational treatment. I am very consistent, in that trans women are women and should be treated as such in all aspects of society.

"acting like you can't tell that she used to be a he"

Transpeople didn't "used to ________ and now they are ____________." Their gender doesn't match their gender assigned at birth. These is no "I used to....." for a trans person.

"It's disingenuous at best and trans people must know that people are just playing along. They aren't dumb."

I am trying really hard to respond in a controlled way to statements like this. The implication of this statement is that trans people know that their identity is bullshit, it's a conscious decision or delusion that they ask others to indulge, rather than asking others to understand that gender and sex is far more expansive (even in the non-human animal kingdom) than we learn in middle school science, so rather than force people to conform to a simplistic understanding of sex and gender, so we can be comfortable in our realm of "what is obvious to everyone," MAYBE we do the work to expand our understanding of the incredible spectrum of humanity and make a place for all people - yes, even within the realm of sports (which isn't some "separate but equal" class of trans folks, because even within those that are trans there are physicality differences - shocker, this happens even within a binary understanding of sex - see Castor Semenya)

Why does your life and experience involve me? I am polite.
I am glad you are polite (although people can tell the difference between politeness and acceptance - and those things feel very different). But the answer to your question, "Why does your life and experience involve me?" is that it doesn't, until public policy begins to be made based on thoughts like yours. Then it directly affects trans folks life and experience. Across the country this year, trans folks have been targeted by laws that deny their existence and result in them being denied healthcare and rights. Read about the public officials laws and statements that give license to people to treat trans folks differently that result in situations like Nex Benedict in OK. The past two years have been awful in NC with the erosion in trans rights and doctors not working with trans kids out of fear of prosecution. I can't imagine how much worse it would be under Robinson, but it is scary. And laws that govern sports are never kept only in the sports realm - it bleeds into everything. As trans folks are treated as "other," "deviant," "disabled," etc. it is easier to take away rights that affect their "life and experience," when all they want is to live and be accepted.

I can't turn off my brain and believe that it isn't a man who has done everything to be a woman, but can never actually be a woman, and feel a little sorry for them.

Trans folks don't want your pity. And as for the rest of this I've answered above.
 
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I think if trans men are good enough to play on the mens team, then have at it. They would have to list their weight though, which they don't do for women's sports.

Interesting concept of trans people not thinking of themselves as having changed. Their body did though, and that's what everyone outside sees, so it's always going to be a challenge. I used to have a deviated septum and now it's straight and my sleep apnea is better. I used to have a penis, but they cut it off and now my sex has been affirmed.

Their identity isn't bullshit.. slow down! It's how they were born. However, they must know that the body will never catch up to their identity. Science can make a penis, but it's going to require a Reebok pump to work. Science can make a vagina, but not a child-bearing womb. Thus, physically trans-women are trans-women.

I understand the desire to have trans kids play sports, especially at an early age. My 6 year old boy is in a co-ed basketball league at the YMCA. A girl dominated the league. Wonderful. However, once you progress into select leagues and high school, you shouldn't be allowed to have a biological advantage that puts biological females at risk or at a disadvantage. Castor Semenya should compete against men. She has testicles, even if they are internal.

I am not in NC, so don't follow NC politics. The bathroom bill was a disaster though and didn't need to be legislated.

Oklahoma is full of morons, but here is a list of bills I could find:
www.oklahoman.com

Oklahoma legislature considering over 50 bills targeting LGBTQ+ issues. What do they say?

The ACLU is tracking anti-LGBTQ+ bills across the nation, and Oklahoma leads the pack with 54 bills. Here's a breakdown of what each bill entails.
www.oklahoman.com www.oklahoman.com
What does deny their existence mean? Specifically are you saying that waiting until they are 18 for gender affirming care denies their existence. I would imagine gender affirming care will track abortion rights on a state by state basis. Then there are lots of religious exemptions and anti-DEI stuff that discuss labels.

Nyx Benedict is literally the worst example Biden could have chosen to make a point. She was raped by her father, abused by her mother and adopted by her grandma to try to extract her from that situation. I am guessing those factored into to her suicide just a little bit.
 
The defensive cover of “I’m just talking about keeping women’s sports fair to women” falls apart immediately with the slightest amount of scrutiny.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
The defensive cover of “I’m just talking about keeping women’s sports fair to women” falls apart immediately with the slightest amount of scrutiny.
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Show me where.. I don't have an opinion either way on gender affirming care, which is what I am guessing he is talking about.

And don't you have some Jew hating to attend to on the Israel thread?
 
It’s interesting that trans depicted here is always a clearly obvious large testosterone man who like just put on a dress. Pinocha has probably been attracted to someone trans and didn’t even know it or did and then was embarrassed.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
It’s interesting that trans depicted here is always a clearly obvious large testosterone man who like just put on a dress. Pinocha has probably been attracted to someone trans and didn’t even know it or did and then was embarrassed.
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We were talking about Lia Thomas, the ambassador for trans women in women's sports. And yeah.. that's exactly what she looks like, a man who put on a dress.

Seen it on porn-hub, not my bag.
 
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