Triad Summer league starts 7/8

[PhDeac]

"stretch fours generally have superior ball-handling, passing, and especially shooting skills."

This doesn't describe Vytas.

If you were using a bastardized definition of stretch 4 that means a PF who isn't full time in the post, then sure Vytas was a "stretch 4".

But again, even the people who "agree" with you say it is an absurd comparison.

 

[RJKarl]

Wrong again. Cav put on weight to play center not PF.

Just because you are listed at a specific position doesn't mean that's your style of play. Few PFs drive to the basket, pass a lot or do pull up mid-range Js. Most PFs play in the post much of the time in HS. Cav didn't.

 

[Deacsfan27]

Thanks for that. I hope he's able to suit up for us this fall, so (if anything) Devin and Travis have the opportunity to play in-position.

I'll look into it and see what I can discern from people close to the situation.

 

[jaybone]

"stretch fours generally have superior ball-handling, passing, and especially shooting skills."

This doesn't describe Vytas.

If you were using a bastardized definition of stretch 4 that means a PF who isn't full time in the post, then sure Vytas was a "stretch 4".

But again, even the people who "agree" with you say it is an absurd comparison.

That wikipedia definition was using the NBA as an example. Yes, stretch 4s in the NBA need to have superior ball-handling and passing skills. I would argue that Ryan Anderson is at best an okay to good ball handler and passer. By comparison, I think we would all agree that Steve Novak is a stetch 4. He can neither handle the ball or pass really, but he's still a stretch 4, just one with real limitations.

Now we go down to college. A stretch 4 in college does not require "superior" ball handling and passing skills, though I think Cav is a really good passer. Vytas not so much. But this is college and that's why Vytas never sniffed the NBA. He'd make a bad NBA stretch 4.

PH, I am always a bit surprised when you go all literate on some of your arguments, not able to even sniff the greys. And this isn't that gray. Your new argument seems to now be that since Vytas was not a "superior" ball handler AND passer, he couldn't be a stretch 4. That's like saying a bear who refuses to dig for food in dumpster is not a bear. Because ALL bears will dig for food in dumpster.

Just fucking go away on this. Or give me what I want - an apology with a "I was wrong" attached to it. Even Rj will on occasion do that. Otherwise, I am going to have to keep bitch slapping you and let me tell you - at this point I'm not even having fun with it.

 

[DCDeac]

The idea that Cav didn't need to add size and strength to play the 4 in the ACC has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. You could only make that argument if you think he'd be a college 3 - which is almost equally ridiculous.

Moonlighting at center for an injured Daniel Green has nothing to do with it.

 

[jaybone]

Wrong again. Cav put on weight to play center not PF.

Just because you are listed at a specific position doesn't mean that's your style of play. Few PFs drive to the basket, pass a lot or do pull up mid-range Js. Most PFs play in the post much of the time in HS. Cav didn't.

Again, the next tallest guy on Cav's high school team was 6'2". They played 3 guards, Cav and Coleman. Had to. That's not a combo forward under any definition. And btw, half of Devin Thomas' high school game was driving to the basket. That's what high school PFs and some Cs do. Because they are better than the competition.

And remember - this weight he supposedly put on is ... 5 pounds.

 

[bmoneydeac]

The idea that Cav didn't need to add size and strength to play the 4 in the ACC has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. You could only make that argument if you think he'd be a college 3 - which is almost equally ridiculous.

Moonlighting at center for an injured Daniel Green has nothing to do with it.

And let's not act like dude was rolled out there looking like The Incredible Hulk. As bone mentioned, he was only 5 pounds heavier than his HS weight.

 

[RJKarl]

Again, the next tallest guy on Cav's high school team was 6'2". They played 3 guards, Cav and Coleman. Had to. That's not a combo forward under any definition. And btw, half of Devin Thomas' high school game was driving to the basket. That's what high school PFs and some Cs do. Because they are better than the competition.

And remember - this weight he supposedly put on is ... 5 pounds.

Actually that proves my point more. The face they didn't have a SF means he is more likely to handle the ball like a SF.

If you watched his HS and AAU he helped start the offense and passed a lot.

You are simply wrong.

 

[Strickland33]

The idea that Cav didn't need to add size and strength to play the 4 in the ACC has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. You could only make that argument if you think he'd be a college 3 - which is almost equally ridiculous.

Moonlighting at center for an injured Daniel Green has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, this just about sums it up. Cav may have had notions of playing SF somewhere along the line when he was playing behind Coleman in the rotation on Albany Rocks, but his breakout summer was at the 4, where he excelled by stretching the floor.

Dude was 215 pounds when he got here. Unathletic 215 pound power forwards don't compete in the ACC, so I'm guessing that with a summer of conditioning and playing with added bulk (and let's not pretend all of that added weight was muscle) he should be more comfortable in his body, and a bit tougher inside. That's the hope, at least.

 

[PhDeac]

That wikipedia definition was using the NBA as an example. Yes, stretch 4s in the NBA need to have superior ball-handling and passing skills. I would argue that Ryan Anderson is at best an okay to good ball handler and passer. By comparison, I think we would all agree that Steve Novak is a stetch 4. He can neither handle the ball or pass really, but he's still a stretch 4, just one with real limitations.

Now we go down to college. A stretch 4 in college does not require "superior" ball handling and passing skills, though I think Cav is a really good passer. Vytas not so much. But this is college and that's why Vytas never sniffed the NBA. He'd make a bad NBA stretch 4.

PH, I am always a bit surprised when you go all literate on some of your arguments, not able to even sniff the greys. And this isn't that gray. Your new argument seems to now be that since Vytas was not a "superior" ball handler AND passer, he couldn't be a stretch 4. That's like saying a bear who refuses to dig for food in dumpster is not a bear. Because ALL bears will dig for food in dumpster.

Just fucking go away on this. Or give me what I want - an apology with a "I was wrong" attached to it. Even Rj will on occasion do that. Otherwise, I am going to have to keep bitch slapping you and let me tell you - at this point I'm not even having fun with it.

What you're doing is like saying anybody who digs for food in a dumpster is a bear.

There are plenty of college stretch 4s. Vytas is not one of them simply because he couldn't spend full-time in the low post with Big E.

 

[jaybone]

Okay, I am done with us.

In my book, Vytas was a stretch 4 his last two years and the fact that he took a 3 every 7 to 10 minutes on the floor across two seasons, in my book, proves my point. Some on here agree with me which is nice, but my point is I think so and I feel pretty comfortable thinking so.

Ditto for Cav. In my book, he didn't play a second at sf last year. Cannot speak for his high school team as I can in college as I didn't sit in the stands, but by definition a stretch 4 is someone who plays the 4 on defense and the perimeter on offense, though should be somewhat comfortable in the paint. The fact that his high school team had nobody else taller than 6'2" is a flag for me that Cav played 4 on defense and did what he does on offense, though with more efficiency as he was going against high school 4s. Again, I feel pretty comfortable and confident thinking so and I don't really need dingleberry and douchebag to agree with me feel this way.

Over out.

 

[RJKarl]

At Wake he played C as much as he played PF. We had no choice.

 

[VaDeac]

No dog in this but it does strike me that Wikipedia-ing stretch 4 is akin to Peter Gibbons and company looking up money laundering in the dictionary.

 

[PhDeac]

Vytas played a stretch 4 in the same way Cav played the 5. Doesn't mean Cav is a 5 or Vytas was a stretch 4.

If Peter Gibbons had to convince somebody that money laundering doesn't involve a washing machine, no doubt he'd show it to them in the dictionary.

 

[Ayo]

 

[Deacsfan27]

This legitimately might be the dumbest argument ever on these boards and that's saying a lot.

Seriously, who cares what he is defined as? He will be on the court regardless and hopefully he contributes.

I don't care what the hell he is called as long as he helps the team.

 

[DCDeac]

This legitimately might be the dumbest argument ever on these boards and that's saying a lot.

On the Dumb/Worthless Scale:

Subject: 8/10
Longevity: 9/10
Uselessness: 10/10
Hijack Value: 9/10

AVG = 9.0

Bonus 0.5 points for PhWrongAgain value. Minus 0.5 points for no GayBone posts. So it's just a 9.0.

 

[jaybone]

On the Dumb/Worthless Scale:

Subject: 8/10
Longevity: 9/10
Uselessness: 10/10
Hijack Value: 9/10

AVG = 9.0

Bonus 0.5 points for PhWrongAgain value. Minus 0.5 points for no GayBone posts. So it's just a 9.0.

I for one am embarrassed by my participation .... except for the post where I used 'stretch 4' seven times (7x) in only two paragraphs.

 

[KidA23]

[url=http://imgflip.com/i/2pf1c][/URL]

 

[deacvision7]

And I thought I allowed myself to get bogged down into inane arguments...