But what if I simply care too much for her to expect that she try to better herself? What about me, 2&2? How does your opinion help me feel more progressive about myself? Lotta good you are.
Trump Budget Proposal: Screw the Poor, the Sick and the Old
- Thread starter WakeForestRanger
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But what if I simply care too much for her to expect that she try to better herself? What about me, 2&2? How does your opinion help me feel more progressive about myself? Lotta good you are.
Or she could simply work for 2&2, have a baby and never work for him again as 100% of women who had babies and worked for 2&2 have throughout his professional life. Well, according to him multiple times.
2&2 Slider To Leyritz
Well-known member
Nobody is forced into anything. She wants to get paid by the state, and the state has a work requirement for that payment (just like any other compensation situation). If she doesn't want to work the "nonpaying job" then she doesn't get paid, simple enough (again, just like any other compensation situation). Nobody is forcing her to do it if she doesn't want to get paid.
WFFaithful
Well-known member
He wouldn't hire her in the first place.
WFFaithful
Well-known member
They often say the opposite of their long-term beliefs if they can sock it to the liberals.
Deacon923
Scooter Banks
I just realized that I allowed 2&2 to bait me into an exchange over an unclear anecdote that was not really a material part of the story.* Well played, 2&2.
Here's the real issue. http://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/tanf_spending_ar.pdf
Arkansas spends about 144 million taxpayer dollars on TANF. Much of that is federal dollars (and much of that, in turn, is paid by much wealthier states who subsidize Arkansas' low-tax policies and poor economy, but I digress).
Out of that pool, Arkansas spends just 6% on basic assistance, 11% on "work activities", and 0% on child care (this is misleading however, see below). They spent 11% on Administrative and Systems - so more went to bureaucrats then actually went to helping poor people get by. Only 5 out of 100 poor families with children in Arkansas receive welfare.
70% was "other services". What are those? Well, from the Arkansas annual report (http://www.arkansas.gov/esd/Programs/TANF/PDF/PublicNotice/2016%20TANF%20Annual%20Report.pdf) that 70% appears to be spent under the "Third and Fourth TANF Purposes". A few of those: Plan to Reduce Unwed Births and Teen Pregnancy, Healthy Marriage Initiative, Fatherhood Initiative, a program for preventing recipients from using benefits at casinos, strip clubs, or liquor stores.
About that childcare. The majority of Arkansas TANF funds (almost $100,000,000/year) go toward operating Arkansas' pre-K program. As best I can tell, the money goes to child care centers for families making less than 70% of the median income, however, I found some evidence that these child-care centers can have up to 35% of their customers be above the threshold. They justify this as appropriate TANF spending by claiming it "prevents out of wedlock pregnancies" and I guess the feds have gone along with it.
Actual cash assistance to needy families - i.e. welfare? Total expenditure was $1,037,689.
Arkansas spends next to nothing helping poor people get jobs. The annual report says an average of 1 person a month participated in subsidized employment. That's not a typo. One.
So what the state of Arkansas has done is take almost all of the federal block grant that was used to provide poor families with cash assistance in 1995 and turned it into a day-care system. The rest of it goes mostly to administration and to programs for preventing teen pregnancy, and of course to drug-testing welfare recipients and making sure they're not spending their benefits on liquor. The annual report spends more pages discussing these critical anti-abuse initiatives than it does discussing the (non-existent) worker training efforts. The state of Arkansas ranks 48th among all states on the share of TANF funds spent on "core activities."
So, Arkansas has followed the red-state welfare reform playbook to the letter. There is no chance that any Arkansan is going to become dependent on welfare - only 5% of poor Arkansans receive it, and the amounts doled out are pitifully small.** Arkansas clearly puts all its money toward supporting marriage and traditional families, so check that box too. No meaningful cash at all goes toward actually getting anyone a job: at best, you get subsidized childcare, and you pull on your bootstraps and you go get that job yourself. Teen pregnancy is clearly bad, we all agree on that, and Arkansas is spending a good chunk of its budget trying to prevent that.
The results?
Teen pregnancy rate: 4th highest in the country.
Poverty rate: 18.7%, 6th highest.
Good job, Arkansas!
*Turns out, Raquel Williams was interviewed for a prior Atlantic story on the same topic. That article provides more detail. She was required to volunteer for 35 hours a week.
**How much did Ms. Williams receive? $247/month. So the state of Arkansas is requiring her to work for 56 cents an hour.
Here's the real issue. http://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/tanf_spending_ar.pdf
Arkansas spends about 144 million taxpayer dollars on TANF. Much of that is federal dollars (and much of that, in turn, is paid by much wealthier states who subsidize Arkansas' low-tax policies and poor economy, but I digress).
Out of that pool, Arkansas spends just 6% on basic assistance, 11% on "work activities", and 0% on child care (this is misleading however, see below). They spent 11% on Administrative and Systems - so more went to bureaucrats then actually went to helping poor people get by. Only 5 out of 100 poor families with children in Arkansas receive welfare.
70% was "other services". What are those? Well, from the Arkansas annual report (http://www.arkansas.gov/esd/Programs/TANF/PDF/PublicNotice/2016%20TANF%20Annual%20Report.pdf) that 70% appears to be spent under the "Third and Fourth TANF Purposes". A few of those: Plan to Reduce Unwed Births and Teen Pregnancy, Healthy Marriage Initiative, Fatherhood Initiative, a program for preventing recipients from using benefits at casinos, strip clubs, or liquor stores.
About that childcare. The majority of Arkansas TANF funds (almost $100,000,000/year) go toward operating Arkansas' pre-K program. As best I can tell, the money goes to child care centers for families making less than 70% of the median income, however, I found some evidence that these child-care centers can have up to 35% of their customers be above the threshold. They justify this as appropriate TANF spending by claiming it "prevents out of wedlock pregnancies" and I guess the feds have gone along with it.
Actual cash assistance to needy families - i.e. welfare? Total expenditure was $1,037,689.
Arkansas spends next to nothing helping poor people get jobs. The annual report says an average of 1 person a month participated in subsidized employment. That's not a typo. One.
So what the state of Arkansas has done is take almost all of the federal block grant that was used to provide poor families with cash assistance in 1995 and turned it into a day-care system. The rest of it goes mostly to administration and to programs for preventing teen pregnancy, and of course to drug-testing welfare recipients and making sure they're not spending their benefits on liquor. The annual report spends more pages discussing these critical anti-abuse initiatives than it does discussing the (non-existent) worker training efforts. The state of Arkansas ranks 48th among all states on the share of TANF funds spent on "core activities."
So, Arkansas has followed the red-state welfare reform playbook to the letter. There is no chance that any Arkansan is going to become dependent on welfare - only 5% of poor Arkansans receive it, and the amounts doled out are pitifully small.** Arkansas clearly puts all its money toward supporting marriage and traditional families, so check that box too. No meaningful cash at all goes toward actually getting anyone a job: at best, you get subsidized childcare, and you pull on your bootstraps and you go get that job yourself. Teen pregnancy is clearly bad, we all agree on that, and Arkansas is spending a good chunk of its budget trying to prevent that.
The results?
Teen pregnancy rate: 4th highest in the country.
Poverty rate: 18.7%, 6th highest.
Good job, Arkansas!
*Turns out, Raquel Williams was interviewed for a prior Atlantic story on the same topic. That article provides more detail. She was required to volunteer for 35 hours a week.
**How much did Ms. Williams receive? $247/month. So the state of Arkansas is requiring her to work for 56 cents an hour.
warak
Well-known member
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- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 8,528
- Reaction score
- 952
Like father, like son...
"In reviewing filings from the Eric Trump Foundation and other charities, it's clear that the course wasn't free--that the Trump Organization received payments for its use, part of more than $1.2 million that has no documented recipients past the Trump Organization. Golf charity experts say the listed expenses defy any reasonable cost justification for a one-day golf tournament.
Additionally, the Donald J. Trump Foundation, which has come under previous scrutiny for self-dealing and advancing the interests of its namesake rather than those of charity, apparently used the Eric Trump Foundation to funnel $100,000 in donations into revenue for the Trump Organization.
And while donors to the Eric Trump Foundation were told their money was going to help sick kids, more than $500,000 was re-donated to other charities, many of which were connected to Trump family members or interests, including at least four groups that subsequently paid to hold golf tournaments at Trump courses.
All of this seems to defy federal tax rules and state laws that ban self-dealing and misleading donors. It also raises larger questions about the Trump family dynamics and whether Eric and his brother, Don Jr., can be truly independent of their father.
Especially since the person who specifically commanded that the for-profit Trump Organization start billing hundreds of thousands of dollars to the nonprofit Eric Trump Foundation, according to two people directly involved, was none other than the current president of the United States, Donald Trump."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danale...charity-money-into-his-business/#38c3ea6c6b4a
"In reviewing filings from the Eric Trump Foundation and other charities, it's clear that the course wasn't free--that the Trump Organization received payments for its use, part of more than $1.2 million that has no documented recipients past the Trump Organization. Golf charity experts say the listed expenses defy any reasonable cost justification for a one-day golf tournament.
Additionally, the Donald J. Trump Foundation, which has come under previous scrutiny for self-dealing and advancing the interests of its namesake rather than those of charity, apparently used the Eric Trump Foundation to funnel $100,000 in donations into revenue for the Trump Organization.
And while donors to the Eric Trump Foundation were told their money was going to help sick kids, more than $500,000 was re-donated to other charities, many of which were connected to Trump family members or interests, including at least four groups that subsequently paid to hold golf tournaments at Trump courses.
All of this seems to defy federal tax rules and state laws that ban self-dealing and misleading donors. It also raises larger questions about the Trump family dynamics and whether Eric and his brother, Don Jr., can be truly independent of their father.
Especially since the person who specifically commanded that the for-profit Trump Organization start billing hundreds of thousands of dollars to the nonprofit Eric Trump Foundation, according to two people directly involved, was none other than the current president of the United States, Donald Trump."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danale...charity-money-into-his-business/#38c3ea6c6b4a
"forced"
Beat me to it. "As a condition of getting free stuff" =/= "forced."
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
"Getting free stuff"
Concise statement summarizing GOP's views of the needy.
Concise statement summarizing GOP's views of the needy.
Which happens to be factual in the case before us.
DeaconSig
Well-known member
Probably better to respond to 2&2's pablum than respond to 923. That way you can avoid the #facts of how red states operate.
PhDeac
PM a mod to cement your internet status forever
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How is it free if somebody worked for it?
Isn't the complaint that the volunteer requirement is the problem? Isn't that the gist of her entire complaint?
It isn't "free." Somebody (else) did work for it.
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
Simple solution: absolve your social contract and find a country where you pay lower taxes.
That is indeed simple, but not a solution. The taxpayer isn't the one with the problem. That's not the problem we are attempting to solve. The taxpayer is doing just fine. It's the person stuck on this broken program who has the problem.