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Wake Forest vs. Georgia Tech Game Thread

DCDeac said:
I think Manning failed much earlier in this game. We actually started out hot and should have built and kept a 15+ point lead. Georges-Hunt is their only player - when he had all 5 of their points at the first TV timeout and barely missed on two other open attempts you might think hey, let's maybe help or switch his defender out of the timeout. Instead we run Codi back out after the timeout, Georges-Hunt scores 4 straight on him, then he turns it over for 2 more GaTech points.

Finally we sub in McClinton for more height on Georges-Hunt which quieted him down. Of course a few minutes later Codi comes back to give up another 6 points to Georges-Hunt, toss in 2 more turnovers for 4 more GaTech points. 10 point swing and suddenly it's tied.

And who do you even sub at the end for "offense" knowing we'll probably be down 4 but maybe 3?

Wilbekin who's shooting 16% from deep over his last 4 games and can't get an offensive rebound to save his life? Hudson who's shooting 14% from deep if you throw out the bank-shot against FSU? Watson and his 0% over the same time period?

Dinos and Crawford are the only two guys shooting over 20% from deep since our 1/31 game. Only real chance to win was probably to extend the game and keep things ugly - drive and maybe dish to Crawford or Dinos if you have to get a 3, hope McClinton can crash and get a board to help Devin since Dinos is on the wing.

The subs and situations don't bother me that much - it's not like Manning has actual options to choose from. The relentless attachment to starters and the doubling down on what's not working is what drives me nuts. I mean, Codi had 0 points and his man scored 30. Considering the McClinton move worked, why run him back out there in the same situation to get torched again? How does Collins get a third of the minutes Dinos gets when he's 3 times more productive? Because the decision was made a week ago in practice?

GaTech only made 2 3's and we made 3 - the big difference in the game is that we were so undisciplined that we took 7 more than they did. Just consider - Devin/Dinos/Collins/McClinton combined to go 16/24 from inside. That's approaching 70% and we took 17 threes? With 14 consecutive misses? WTF.

Win #3 we gave away. VaTech, UVA, GaTech.
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Down two possessions with 10 seconds left. Any missed shot virtually ends the game. Offensive rebound probably not going to make a difference. Should've gone with Crawford, Wilbekin, Hudson, Dinos and Devin. Yes they are very far from great shooters but theyre the best we have and need them to be on the floor there. Honestly, we probably shouldve gone for a quick two there, but the players seemed to be on completely different pages. That's what happens when DM wastes his last timeout after that one made bucket that let GT take Mitchell out the game.
 
DCDeac said:
And who do you even sub at the end for "offense" knowing we'll probably be down 4 but maybe 3?

Wilbekin who's shooting 16% from deep over his last 4 games and can't get an offensive rebound to save his life? Hudson who's shooting 14% from deep if you throw out the bank-shot against FSU? Watson and his 0% over the same time period?

Dinos and Crawford are the only two guys shooting over 20% from deep since our 1/31 game. Only real chance to win was probably to extend the game and keep things ugly - drive and maybe dish to Crawford or Dinos if you have to get a 3, hope McClinton can crash and get a board to help Devin since Dinos is on the wing.
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You have to put Wilbekin and Hudson in as they are at least semi-capable of making a 3pt shot. Plus Hudson can drive (McC cant do anything). If MGH misses and we are down 3, wouldnt you want 4 potential shooters on the court? Trying to extend the game might have been the correct play down 4, but at the point in time when Manning had to make the sub (since we didnt have any TO) we were down 3 with the potential to stay down 3.
 
sailordeac said:
If DT's attitude is the problem, why were we playing better early on in the season ? Why is DT's attitude destructive now, when it was not earlier?
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we were winning at the beginning of the season so I would assume the horrible stretch we're on now is the reason for his attitude.
 
Tin Cup said:
You have to put Wilbekin and Hudson in as they are at least semi-capable of making a 3pt shot. Plus Hudson can drive (McC cant do anything). If MGH misses and we are down 3, wouldnt you want 4 potential shooters on the court? Trying to extend the game might have been the correct play down 4, but at the point in time when Manning had to make the sub (since we didnt have any TO) we were down 3 with the potential to stay down 3.
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I mean... do you "have to?" McClinton was 3/3 on the night, Hudson 1/8. Wilbekin can't create a shot or elevate over anyone. Our 2 best three point shooters were on the floor. Would I have put in Wilbekin and Hudson? Probably. Based on how they are playing do you want either taking a 3? Probably not. Wilbekin would likely get swatted and Hudson would have to bank it in the way he's shooting - he and Codi are basically equal in 3 point percentage. I probably like Codi trying to create with Dinos and Crawford spotting up, and Devin/McClinton crashing because a quick putback/foul could still have 5 seconds or so left. Plus McClinton knows he's not supposed to shoot, and honestly this team played better with a starter playing garbage man than they've been playing with the expected starting 5.

Either way the truth is it's like choosing between a soft taco or a burrito from Taco Bell. They're pretty much the same crap in slightly different packages but either way you're getting diarrhea.
 
DCDeac said:
I mean... do you "have to?" McClinton was 3/3 on the night, Hudson 1/8. Wilbekin can't create a shot or elevate over anyone. Our 2 best three point shooters were on the floor. Would I have put in Wilbekin and Hudson? Probably. Based on how they are playing do you want either taking a 3? Probably not. Wilbekin would likely get swatted and Hudson would have to bank it in the way he's shooting - he and Codi are basically equal in 3 point percentage. I probably like Codi trying to create with Dinos and Crawford spotting up, and Devin/McClinton crashing because a quick putback/foul could still have 5 seconds or so left. Plus McClinton knows he's not supposed to shoot, and honestly this team played better with a starter playing garbage man than they've been playing with the expected starting 5.

Either way the truth is it's like choosing between a soft taco or a burrito from Taco Bell. They're pretty much the same crap in slightly different packages but either way you're getting diarrhea.
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CMM is total dog shit. No way his 0 scoring potential ass should be on the court in crunch time. What does CMM have over on DM?
 
I watched the replay of the game last night. I really think if people calmly assess the team, they'd understand Manning's position and be more hopeful for the future. Collins and Crawford are absolute studs. Moore is going to be a game-changer. He already is to a point but is going to get much better with development and conditioning.

The reality is that the we have no one that can shoot on this team. We shot 17.5% from 3. More than once, we had very open looks from the perimeter and CMM, Wilbekin (wide open), Rondale, Hudson, and Dinos couldn't knock them down. The team really has 2 relatively consistent shooters - Dinos and Crawford. And that generally explains why Collins doesn't play more. You're not going to take Devin out other than to provide him a breather. So that leaves the other big position. And he rotates Dinos, Collins, and Moore, for the available minutes. Collins is almost already a beast but there is now there is no deep threat with Dinos off the floor.

I understand why Manning plays Wilbekin, he's a potential 3rd deep threat and thus provides some spacing, but even Manning recognizes his defensive limitations and subs him out in defensive situations. The problem is that he's not shooting that well and he gives up a lot defensively.

CMM's 0-fer in the GaTech game is just shitty, particularly for a Senior. He gets his shots, he just doesn't make them. Not sure what Manning is supposed to do with that. A Senior should be able to know how to score.

The good news is that GMC and Hudson are showing signs of life. But this team desperately needs perimeter threats, which is exactly what Manning has coming in next year.

This team has holes. We shoot even 25% from 3 in that game and we win. I'm eager to see a team with Manning's full roster on it.
 
We're going to be good again.

It's just that we've been ungood for so loooooong. :(
 
MichDeac25 said:
I watched the replay of the game last night. I really think if people calmly assess the team, they'd understand Manning's position and be more hopeful for the future. Collins and Crawford are absolute studs. Moore is going to be a game-changer. He already is to a point but is going to get much better with development and conditioning.

The reality is that the we have no one that can shoot on this team. We shot 17.5% from 3. More than once, we had very open looks from the perimeter and CMM, Wilbekin (wide open), Rondale, Hudson, and Dinos couldn't knock them down. The team really has 2 relatively consistent shooters - Dinos and Crawford. And that generally explains why Collins doesn't play more. You're not going to take Devin out other than to provide him a breather. So that leaves the other big position. And he rotates Dinos, Collins, and Moore, for the available minutes. Collins is almost already a beast but there is now there is no deep threat with Dinos off the floor.

I understand why Manning plays Wilbekin, he's a potential 3rd deep threat and thus provides some spacing, but even Manning recognizes his defensive limitations and subs him out in defensive situations. The problem is that he's not shooting that well and he gives up a lot defensively.

CMM's 0-fer in the GaTech game is just shitty, particularly for a Senior. He gets his shots, he just doesn't make them. Not sure what Manning is supposed to do with that. A Senior should be able to know how to score.

The good news is that GMC and Hudson are showing signs of life. But this team desperately needs perimeter threats, which is exactly what Manning has coming in next year.

This team has holes. We shoot even 25% from 3 in that game and we win. I'm eager to see a team with Manning's full roster on it.
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Sorry, not buying. When you lose every single game, there are no justifications for not playing your talented freshman bigs more. None.
 
MichDeac25 said:
CMM's 0-fer in the GaTech game is just shitty, particularly for a Senior. He gets his shots, he just doesn't make them. Not sure what Manning is supposed to do with that. A Senior should be able to know how to score.
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Not play him?
 
Senior year or not, if CMM is throwing up full blown 0.00 Blutarskies on the offensive end and letting career high 30's be dropped on us on the defensive end, it's time to grab some pine and watch the end of the season next to the waterboy.
 
Not sure why anyone is even the least bit concerned about CMM. This team has seven completely meaningless games left, after which CMM's PT will cease to be an issue.
 
CMM is a sign Manning has no idea how to manage a roster.
 
PhDeac said:
CMM is a sign Manning has no idea how to manage a roster.
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Not that I'm a huge fan of Manning's rotations, but against GaTech Codi played 19 minutes to Hudson's 21 and McClinton's 22. We still lost. Against UVA after myself and many others demanded he be yanked from the lineup, he had 8 assists and 5 points - nobody else on the team had more than 1 assist and we should have won that game.

Every decision looks terrible when nobody is producing. The summary of the boards over the past month - bench Codi, bench Hudson, bench McClinton, bench VanHorn, bench Watson - then we cycle through who should have played in hindsight.

At least Doral and Collins have put up stats at time to justify complaints about their minutes. Nobody at the 2 or 3 has earned anything.
 
Crawford is already getting more minutes than CMM, in most games significantly more. Against GT, CMM played 20 minutes and Crawford played 34. Just who the hell else is Mannng supposed to play at guard? It's not like he has other quality options.
 
CMM should get under 10 minutes. If he keeps playing as bad as the last game, that should dwindle to zero. Wilbekin, Hudson, Watson, all are better.

We are starting 3 guards with one being CMM. That is seriously unsmart.
 
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