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Wake - Louisville thread.... Strippers, Hoes and Basketball

If so, he needs to hit a home run this time. I still can't believe that we didn't get a higher caliber GT after Dinos left.
 
Ghostsurfer said:
If so, he needs to hit a home run this time. I still can't believe that we didn't get a higher caliber GT after Dinos left.
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Because he left something like 2 weeks before the school year started and after the GT market was depleted.
 
Moore is almost averaging a double double and some still talk about him as a stiff.
 
Have to seriously question the basketball knowledge of anyone questions Moore playing for UVA (starting) or another ACC team. We have a set of guards that are too small, too afraid or too selfish to send the ball into him when he's open. If he stays out of foul trouble he should be a 20-10 guy.

16 and 13? Moore is the brightest light of this dismal season. If anything this team has held him back this year.
 
Deac83 said:
Have to seriously question the basketball knowledge of anyone questions Moore playing for UVA (starting) or another ACC team. We have a set of guards that are too small, too afraid or too selfish to send the ball into him when he's open. If he stays out of foul trouble he should be a 20-10 guy.

16 and 13? Moore is the brightest light of this dismal season. If anything this team has held him back this year.
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Plus, Chaundee has really shown against Duke and Louisville what he’s capable of doing. He’s looked much better and more comfortable on offense since he’s gotten the PT.
 
PhDeac said:
I don't think our fans truly understand how good Moore is. He's averaging 10.4 pts, 10.3 reb (4th), 2.4 blk (4th) on .625 shooting (1st) in conference play.

Not only that, he's on a tear in the last 6 games. 13.2 pts, 11.2 reb, 67% from the field. Moore had 9+ points in each game. He had double digits boards in 5 of 6 games and four double-doubles.

And we lost each game by 8+ points.

We are completely wasting a very strong season by Moore.
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If you don’t have good all around coaching that happens, what did LSU do the year they had Ben Simmons? I think Manning needs to be an assistant somewhere working with that team’s bigs, not a head coach unfortunately.
 
thatguy2016 said:
all of that is fair

but there is a key difference here: Bennett's teams have ALWAYS played great defense

sometimes as a result they are mind-numbingly boring to watch, but they ALWAYS get after you defensively

he's been a head coach for 12 years and his teams have been top 25 in D 10 years (top 10 8 of those years)

DM does not have an identity approaching anything near that
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They really haven't though. Bennett has a system that limits possessions, so even when he was becoming [Redacted]'s only ACC win in his 2nd year giving up "only" 76 points, they let us shoot 50% from deep. They lost that NC State ACC tourney game by 20 in his 4th year by letting Scott Wood go 7/12 from deep. I think it would be more accurate to say Bennett has always tried to limit possessions and reduce overall scoring in games, but that it took until his 5th year to really get a group of guys that could add elite defense to that mix. The results have been fantastic based on their history, but if you asked fans I think they'd admit there's a nagging question of whether that style can really win a championship. But whatever, that's a complaint we'd all take in a heartbeat.

The problem with going ballistic after every loss is that it undermines the reality that building a program isn't really measurable game-to-game. Bennett is great because he's proven that he can continue recruiting and coaching consistently at a high level, year after year. That's where the similarities completely and totally end, as Manning hasn't sniffed proving that. If anything he's making it look like he'd better recruit like crazy because unlike Bennett he's not going to make up for much with coaching. Bennett has to start Salt this year and they're #2 in the country. I don't see any indication Manning has the chops to overcome a gap like that - although lots of successful coaches can't.

Fact is Manning went from 2 to 9 ACC wins in a year with moderate recruiting, and was even 5th in ACC CoY voting. You can argue Bennett's first 4 years are next-level because he racked up more wins, but he didn't have 2 of his best players leave - and he relied on 2 players to a very similar extent his 4th year and still only made the NIT while putting up some huge, confidence-rocking losses. It's also probably more familiar to me since I had a bunch of UVA friends and booster-types around that were VERY plugged into the effort to fire him if year 5 didn't go well. The rest is history, but the sense of entitlement to sports success at UVA is even higher than it is at Wake since they're a state school with all kinds of resources. Lots of these arguments are eerily similar - discounting the one NCAA appearance in year 3, discounting the success at his previous stop as inheriting players then only making the NIT with his guys, etc.
 
DCDeac said:
They really haven't though. Bennett has a system that limits possessions, so even when he was becoming [Redacted]'s only ACC win in his 2nd year giving up "only" 76 points, they let us shoot 50% from deep. They lost that NC State ACC tourney game by 20 in his 4th year by letting Scott Wood go 7/12 from deep. I think it would be more accurate to say Bennett has always tried to limit possessions and reduce overall scoring in games, but that it took until his 5th year to really get a group of guys that could add elite defense to that mix.
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you are 100% wrong with this assertion

Bennett's teams have always been strong in defensive efficiency, which is points allowed per possession (ignoring tempo) allowing for the relative strength of the opposing offense

sure there were outlier games, but over the course of 10 of 12 seasons Bennett has been a head coach (the exceptions being his first two at UVA) his teams have excelled
 
For emphasis, here are Bennett's team defensive ratings as a head coach:

16
9
8
71 (first year at Virginia)
71 (second year at Virginia)
5
25 (by far his worst showing with "his" recruits - #25 in the nation)
4
2
7
2
1

Here are Manning's defensive ratings since becoming a head coach:

131
51
125
128
176
133
 
thatguy2016 said:
you are 100% wrong with this assertion

Bennett's teams have always been strong in defensive efficiency, which is points allowed per possession (ignoring tempo) allowing for the relative strength of the opposing offense

sure there were outlier games, but over the course of 10 of 12 seasons Bennett has been a head coach (the exceptions being his first two at UVA) his teams have excelled
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Actually they were 124th in his first year and 133rd in his 2nd year. Then they hit #1 in year 3 and have been amazing ever since.
 
DCDeac said:
They really haven't though. Bennett has a system that limits possessions, so even when he was becoming [Redacted]'s only ACC win in his 2nd year giving up "only" 76 points, they let us shoot 50% from deep. They lost that NC State ACC tourney game by 20 in his 4th year by letting Scott Wood go 7/12 from deep. I think it would be more accurate to say Bennett has always tried to limit possessions and reduce overall scoring in games, but that it took until his 5th year to really get a group of guys that could add elite defense to that mix. The results have been fantastic based on their history, but if you asked fans I think they'd admit there's a nagging question of whether that style can really win a championship. But whatever, that's a complaint we'd all take in a heartbeat.

The problem with going ballistic after every loss is that it undermines the reality that building a program isn't really measurable game-to-game. Bennett is great because he's proven that he can continue recruiting and coaching consistently at a high level, year after year. That's where the similarities completely and totally end, as Manning hasn't sniffed proving that. If anything he's making it look like he'd better recruit like crazy because unlike Bennett he's not going to make up for much with coaching. Bennett has to start Salt this year and they're #2 in the country. I don't see any indication Manning has the chops to overcome a gap like that - although lots of successful coaches can't.

Fact is Manning went from 2 to 9 ACC wins in a year with moderate recruiting, and was even 5th in ACC CoY voting. You can argue Bennett's first 4 years are next-level because he racked up more wins, but he didn't have 2 of his best players leave - and he relied on 2 players to a very similar extent his 4th year and still only made the NIT while putting up some huge, confidence-rocking losses. It's also probably more familiar to me since I had a bunch of UVA friends and booster-types around that were VERY plugged into the effort to fire him if year 5 didn't go well. The rest is history, but the sense of entitlement to sports success at UVA is even higher than it is at Wake since they're a state school with all kinds of resources. Lots of these arguments are eerily similar - discounting the one NCAA appearance in year 3, discounting the success at his previous stop as inheriting players then only making the NIT with his guys, etc.
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Great post and very interesting to hear that about the UVA fans.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Plus, Chaundee has really shown against Duke and Louisville what he’s capable of doing. He’s looked much better and more comfortable on offense since he’s gotten the PT.
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Absolutely! Especially if he keeps slashing. Worse thing that happened was the six 3s at BC. He has to attack not settle for 3s, then continue build up the other parts of his young game.
 
DCDeac said:
Actually they were 124th in his first year and 133rd in his 2nd year. Then they hit #1 in year 3 and have been amazing ever since.
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not sure what stat you are pulling, but according to KP, Bennett has never been outside the top 100 in team defense

also, he had shown himself to be great at WSU
 
DCDeac said:
Just equating all 4 stars and acting like our talent level is just like UVA's isn't all that fair. Someone in another thread called UVA's players unathletic and said Guy wasn't quick... Guy was a McDonalds All American, I remember he finished 2nd in a dunk contest coming out of high school. He was what, a top 40 guy? Crawford was barely in the top 100. Their 2016 class was very good by any measure, and far beyond anything Wake has done since maybe the Aminu class.

Guys like Chaundee and Hoard coming into the program are putting us much closer to what most would consider the bare minimum for ACC competition. Easy to forget that despite inheriting NBA talent like Mike Scott, Bennett only made 1 NCAA tourney in his first 4 years, and that fourth year he had guys like Justin Anderson, Joe Harris, Akil Mitchell, and Mike Tobey on the roster. Like Manning will have, he had zero NCAA tourney wins before his 5th season, and not counting an ACC tourney play-in game he had zero wins there as well. Sure, his 4th year was an NIT appearance versus Manning's being a total debacle, but if he'd lost Mitchell and Harris from that team you can only imagine how bad they would have been. And they still got blown out by a mediocre NC State team in the ACC tourney - Junior Joe Harris, future NBA player, had 5 turnovers and shot 22% from deep.

There were tons of UVA fans out for blood against Bennett after his 4th year. They'd been through 15 years with one NCAA tourney win and thought he was just another repeat of Gillen. They've had 7 wins in the past 4.
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You guys know that 4 of UVA's top guys are red shirts right? Hall rs sr, Salt rs Jr, 5star Diakete rs soph, freaking DeAndre Hunter redshirted last year! Extra year in ANY coach's system and S&C helps exponentially. But YES DM must get Craw's head out of his ass and Chill to be Pt guard FIRST, then look for his shot. And get a big for next year, and accept coaching from his assets. And get pissed off at something.
 
PhDeac said:
I don't think our fans truly understand how good Moore is. He's averaging 10.4 pts, 10.3 reb (4th), 2.4 blk (4th) on .625 shooting (1st) in conference play.

Not only that, he's on a tear in the last 6 games. 13.2 pts, 11.2 reb, 67% from the field. Moore had 9+ points in each game. He had double digits boards in 5 of 6 games and four double-doubles.

And we lost each game by 8+ points.

We are completely wasting a very strong season by Moore.
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Moore has shown tremendous improvement this year......something we were all hoping for, but that many were actually expecting. He's becoming a real factor and a key part of our offense. As stated during several games we need to feed Moore, feed Moore, feed Moore.

If we could get just one of our forwards to start contributing, we may win a few games.
 
Playing two forwards would help make that happen.
 
DCDeac quoting an individual’s single game field goal percentage always cracks me up. Just a weird quirk.
 
bmoneydeac said:
DCDeac quoting an individual’s single game field goal percentage always cracks me up. Just a weird quirk.
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Random note just because I saw a post about the total on Crawford's turnovers and scoring against Louisville as if Bennett would never coach a junior leader who would have 5 or 6 turns in a game or miss a ton of 3's. I realize it's meaningless, but no less meaningless than the "Bennett would never have a player do XYZ" when he had exactly that happen in the biggest game of the year for UVA in his 4th year.
 
Ayo said:
wut
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Think that's actual (NCAA.com stats only D1) vs. Kenpom's estimated vs. D1 average. Kenpom squishes the middle - 60 teams in the first 10 point spread, 180 teams in the next 10 point spread. Drop a single non D1 outcome off Kenpom and anyone around the 100 zone can see a 20+ move.

At the same time, Wake was the 7th best offense in the country last year on Kenpom metrics, but UVA's numbers are gospel and Manning's offense gets routinely trashed, he's called dumb and an idiot. Or hey, if UVA's 70'ish defensive Kenpom ranking was great then Wake's offense this year must be as well because that's our ranking.

Anyway, go relative instead if you want, applies across all metrics. For Kenpom, only 2 ACC teams were worse than UVA in Bennett's first year, and only 4 ACC teams were worse than UVA on defense in Bennett's 2nd year.
 
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