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Wake's

While you old guys are out "olding" each other - I thought the original article was pretty interesting. I started wake in 92 , been a big deac fan ever since (as painful as that can be) and I've literally *never* heard of this guy until the article. Is there some reason he's been (pardon the expression) whitewashed out of memory?
 
Henry Chinaski said:
While you old guys are out "olding" each other - I thought the original article was pretty interesting. I started wake in 92 , been a big deac fan ever since (as painful as that can be) and I've literally *never* heard of this guy until the article. Is there some reason he's been (pardon the expression) whitewashed out of memory?
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Is there some reason why you shouldn't know anything about WF before the day you enrolled there? I enrolled in the fall of 1964, but I already knew all about Dickie Hemric, Jackie Murdock, Lefty Davis, Ernie Wiggins, Jack Williams & Jim Gilley, et al, when I got there.....and they played for WF up to 10+ years before I enrolled. I became a WF fan when I was in the 5th grade.

Maybe that's the problem. We have too many grads today who had no relationship with WF until they started looking for places to go to college when they were in the 11th grade. Nobody whitewashed Freddie Summers out of memory. Had you ever heard of Brian Piccolo or Len Chappell before 1992?

ETA: Another reason why there hasn't been more written about Summers is that his career wasn't that memorable and he played on teams that won 4 & 2 games during the two years he was starting QB at WF. In his junior year, Summers threw for 909 yards & 2 touchdowns. Not exactly world-record stats. Then in his senior year, he threw for 1,664 yards & 9 touchdowns. That's better, but still nothing to write home about. He also had 8 interceptions in his junior year and an incredible 25 interceptions in his senior year. 11 touchdown passes and 33 interceptions is an absolutely awful stat.
 
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bobknightfan said:
Is there some reason why you shouldn't know anything about WF before the day you enrolled there? I enrolled in the fall of 1964, but I already knew all about Dickie Hemric, Jackie Murdock, Lefty Davis, Ernie Wiggins, Jack Williams & Jim Gilley, et al, when I got there.....and they played for WF up to 10+ years before I enrolled. I became a WF fan when I was in the 5th grade.

Maybe that's the problem. We have too many grads today who had no relationship with WF until they started looking for places to go to college when they were in the 11th grade. Nobody whitewashed Freddie Summers out of memory. Had you ever heard of Brian Piccolo or Len Chappell before 1992?

ETA: Another reason why there hasn't been more written about Summers is that his career wasn't that memorable and he played on teams that only won 3, 3, 4 & 2 games in his four years at WF. In his junior year, Summers threw for 909 yards & 2 touchdowns. Not exactly world-record stats. Then in his senior year, he threw for 1,664 yards & 9 touchdowns. That's better, but still nothing to write home about. He also had 8 interceptions in his junior year and an incredible 25 interceptions in his senior year. 11 touchdowns and 33 interceptions is an awful stat.
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Four?
 
bobknightfan said:
Is there some reason why you shouldn't know anything about WF before the day you enrolled there? I enrolled in the fall of 1964, but I already knew all about Dickie Hemric, Jackie Murdock, Lefty Davis, Ernie Wiggins, Jack Williams & Jim Gilley, et al, when I got there.....and they played for WF up to 10+ years before I enrolled. I became a WF fan when I was in the 5th grade.

Maybe that's the problem. We have too many grads today who had no relationship with WF until they started looking for places to go to college when they were in the 11th grade. Nobody whitewashed Freddie Summers out of memory. Had you ever heard of Brian Piccolo or Len Chappell before 1992?

ETA: Another reason why there hasn't been more written about Summers is that his career wasn't that memorable and he played on teams that only won 3, 3, 4 & 2 games in his four years at WF. In his junior year, Summers threw for 909 yards & 2 touchdowns. Not exactly world-record stats. Then in his senior year, he threw for 1,664 yards & 9 touchdowns. That's better, but still nothing to write home about. He also had 8 interceptions in his junior year and an incredible 25 interceptions in his senior year. 11 touchdowns and 33 interceptions is an awful stat.
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That's my point, I know plenty about piccolo and chappel and charlie Davis and mugsy and chuck ramsey and venuto and all sorts of other random people. Just literally never heard of this guy. I'm wondering why wake or popular media never mentions him
 
Henry Chinaski said:
That's my point, I know plenty about piccolo and chappel and charlie Davis and mugsy and chuck ramsey and venuto and all sorts of other random people. Just literally never heard of this guy. I'm wondering why wake or popular media never mentions him
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Possibly because those teams weren't very good. Lack of depth led to a lot of late game disappointments. After winning the last four games in 1967 there was a lot of optimism in 1968. Summers even made the statement that it would be tough to keep the Deacs under 21 points. The record shows otherwise. Robert Grant was the best of the group mentioned in the article. IIRC he had a decent NFL career as a linebacker.

Another reason could be the ACC championship the 1970 team earned. As recent history has shown, given the choice most alumni will remember and talk about championships if given the option.

Edit. If we are being honest the most probable reason is racial. The number of black students at Wake was miniscule. Integration had just begun and it wasn't well received by segments in the university or the local and regional press. If acceptance is begrudging, those blazing a path suffer and are often forgotten. It was good to see Barry Jacobs remembered. You asked.
 
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BlackjackMc said:
Possibly because those teams weren't very good. Lack of depth led to a lot of late game disappointments. After winning the last four games in 1967 there was a lot of optimism in 1968. Summers even made the statement that it would be tough to keep the Deacs under 21 points. The record shows otherwise. Robert Grant was the best of the group mentioned in the article. IIRC he had a decent NFL career as a linebacker.

Another reason could be the ACC championship the 1970 team earned. As recent history has shown, given the choice most alumni will remember and talk about championships if given the option.

Edit. If we are being honest the most probable reason is racial. The number of black students at Wake was miniscule. Integration had just begun and it wasn't well received by segments in the university or the local and regional press. If acceptance is begrudging, those blazing a path suffer and are often forgotten. It was good to see Barry Jacobs remembered. You asked.
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i would argue that the only reason a fair number of people do know of Freddy is b/c he's black, if not for that he'd be about as well-remembered as Kit Basler; same goes for Norwood Todman. These guys are significant figures to me as a Wake fan for both their courage and their accomplishments on the court/gridiron, but they won't get near the widespread acclaim of a Charlie Davis breaking the color line with the "legendary" Dean Smith (who by the way swooped in at the last minute to steal him from Lefty over at Davidson)
 
And because Wake can't really tout their historical firsts all that much as it comes to race. If Wake started touting their "bravery" in signing Fast Freddie and, oh my god, playing him at quarterback of all positions, they would open themselves up to a comb through of other sports or other situations, and that would not benefit Wake, unfortunately. Blame the Baptists. I do. Some.
 
Has Freddie ever been named as one of the "Legends of the ACC"? This would be a good year to do that.
 
DownEastDeac said:
i would argue that the only reason a fair number of people do know of Freddy is b/c he's black, if not for that he'd be about as well-remembered as Kit Basler; same goes for Norwood Todman. These guys are significant figures to me as a Wake fan for both their courage and their accomplishments on the court/gridiron, but they won't get near the widespread acclaim of a Charlie Davis breaking the color line with the "legendary" Dean Smith (who by the way swooped in at the last minute to steal him from Lefty over at Davidson)
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Charlie Davis was GREAT Deac.!! I think you are referencing Charlie Scott as the 1st Black guy at UNC-CH.
 
jaybone said:
And because Wake can't really tout their historical firsts all that much as it comes to race. If Wake started touting their "bravery" in signing Fast Freddie and, oh my god, playing him at quarterback of all positions, they would open themselves up to a comb through of other sports or other situations, and that would not benefit Wake, unfortunately. Blame the Baptists. I do. Some.
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Is Wake's record on racial integration in athletics any worse than other Southern schools?

I think it is significant that Freddie Summers was the first African American starting QB at a Southern school. It doesn't really matter how good he was or the team was.
 
raldeac said:
Charlie Davis was GREAT Deac.!! I think you are referencing Charlie Scott as the 1st Black guy at UNC-CH.
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Charlie Davis is my all-time favorite WF player. Nobody else is even close....not even Len Chappell, who is a distant 2nd.
 
It's a shame there isn't any film or video of CD in action. The Deacs have had some talent at guard over the years but he was the most accurate shooter to every wear the old gold and black and he could get it on his own. Simply had to see it to believe it.
 
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