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What Entrepreneurs Want

Can't wait for the RWers to start calling this article and the people hippies and commies. Low taxes are almost irrelevant. Great infrastructure is important. The arts and parks draw people and business. Basically, if Republicans oppose funding something, it draws the best and the brightest.
 
Local/state governments don't have low tax and business friendly policies to attract entrepreneurs, do they? I always thought that was targeted at more mature businesses, ie the customers of entrepreneurs (3rd on the list). Investment in Universities (talent), incubator infrastructure, and things like the old Supercomputer center is more targeted at entrepreneurs.
 
Well, the politicians in my town/county/region are desperate to land an auto plant because, well, everyone else in the south has one so we must be missing out. So, they are gearing up to spend tens of millions of dollars on a patch of dirt to be given away to the first auto plant that comes calling, plus they'll spend tens of millions more to run infrastructure out there, plus they'll probably give tens of millions in tax incentives, plus they might throw in some blowjobs if asked nicely.

Now there's nothing wrong with auto manufacturing per se. My problem with all this is that those millions could be spent on more incremental changes to improve the quality of life in the region (transport, parks, "culture", education) to build up entrepreneurs instead of multinationals. It's slower and it's not the home run ribbon cutting that these politicians lust after. But think about the end result, which is that the entrepreneurs create the jobs and the locality gets both the jobs AND the corporate profits stay local and continue to move around the local economy. With the home run auto plant, we get the jobs, which are great, BUT, all the profits are extracted to non-local shareholders and upper management, AND to get the plant we have to give away the farm on the taxes the plant should be paying. The end of the business cycle of an auto plant is not pretty, either. Ask Detroit.

I think if you analyze it on the basis of what is most likely to get the best ROI for the tax dollar, the small ball entrepreneurial approach wins every time.
 
I agree that a community and state should invest incrementally in its own citizens rather than bribing/ sucking the dick of a behemoth corporation for a bunch of low level jorbs. On that note, fuck McCrory. I hope that smug, two faced, toe stepping, lying douchebag gets run out on a rail and never steps foot in North Carolina again.

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Yeah, but the tech entepreneurs provide jobs for educated transient hipsters, not low-skilled sedentary locals who are the voters to whom the local politicians theoretically have to answer.
 
I agree that a community and state should invest incrementally in its own citizens rather than bribing/ sucking the dick of a behemoth federal government for a bunch of low-skill-pencil-pushing-badge wearing jobs.

The Fix is in...
 
Yeah, but the tech entepreneurs provide jobs for educated transient hipsters, not low-skilled sedentary locals who are the voters to whom the local politicians theoretically have to answer.

Im pretty confident that most local entrepreneurship is service industry based, and provides low to medium skill employment, and is often the easiest way for employees to gain their initial management and training experience.

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I think if you analyze it on the basis of what is most likely to get the best ROI for the tax dollar, the small ball entrepreneurial approach wins every time.
That's a pretty bold generalization that I don't think is true. For example, the article states entrepreneurs want a metro region of at least 1m people. There are only 52 metro regions that fit that number. What does the rest of the country do to help it's citizens? Building a base through tax incentives is one way to create enough girth to attract entrepreneurs...because size matters. RTP is a tax free zone. It helped build the RDU metro region with size and end customers that has been attracting entrepreneurs. Durham hates it. Is that a mistake too? Big companies have come and gone there too...like Nortel.

Detroit is a great example of what not to do. Attracting business is not one of those things, they acted as if the auto businesses owed them. Besides, manufacturing facilities can exist for >100 years...they retool and upgrade....if they are allowed to, emphasis on the latter.
 
That's a pretty bold generalization that I don't think is true. For example, the article states entrepreneurs want a metro region of at least 1m people. There are only 52 metro regions that fit that number. What does the rest of the country do to help it's citizens? Building a base through tax incentives is one way to create enough girth to attract entrepreneurs...because size matters. RTP is a tax free zone. It helped build the RDU metro region with size and end customers that has been attracting entrepreneurs. Durham hates it. Is that a mistake too? Big companies have come and gone there too...like Nortel.

Detroit is a great example of what not to do. Attracting business is not one of those things, they acted as if the auto businesses owed them. Besides, manufacturing facilities can exist for >100 years...they retool and upgrade....if they are allowed to, emphasis on the latter.

Wait, since when does Durham hate RTP? RTP basically illustrates 923's point perfectly.
 
Wait, since when does Durham hate RTP? RTP basically illustrates 923's point perfectly.
You don't know much about Durham politics then do you. Durham gets 0 tax dollars directly from RTP and are particularly upset about this new change in the park plans to include residential and commercial, which apparently will also be tax free. So if you're against tax free incentives, you should be against what happened in RTP. But it attracted most of the businesses there and helped seed a lot of entrepreneural operations. There really isn't much different between attracting IBM to RTP or a high tech BMW auto plant to Spartansburg SC. Either you disagree with both or not.
 
Jacksonville is hosting One Spark in like 6 weeks. Seems like a really interesting concept. Like a live version of kick starter.
 
You don't know much about Durham politics then do you. Durham gets 0 tax dollars directly from RTP and are particularly upset about this new change in the park plans to include residential and commercial, which apparently will also be tax free. So if you're against tax free incentives, you should be against what happened in RTP. But it attracted most of the businesses there and helped seed a lot of entrepreneural operations. There really isn't much different between attracting IBM to RTP or a high tech BMW auto plant to Spartansburg SC. Either you disagree with both or not.

I don't know much about RTP, but a little Googling indicated that the new development will not be tax free - I found a reference to a specific agreement that the residential and commercial will pay tax even though its on foundation land. Also, as I understand it, RTP was set up with several thousand acres, and when it sells off a chunk to a company, that company thereafter pays property taxes like anybody else. Those would get paid to the county. In fact, I am pretty sure that the county assesses additional taxes within the research park to cover extra amenities provided to the park. Here is the recently passed legislation enabling the new development. http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/SessionLaws/HTML/2011-2012/SL2012-73.html Am I wrong about that? If so, help me understand it.

It does appear to be true that the city of Durham is not permitted to annex sites within RTP (even those sold by RTP). The county provides municipal-type services to RTP and collects taxes to pay for them (see above). It is also true that any property actually owned by the foundation would not be subject to property tax since the foundation is a nonprofit.

So, I'm not sure the situation is as cut and dried as you make it out to be. Maybe you can provide a link to something that will support your description of the tax structure at RTP.
 
Duh, entrepreneurs want whatever my worldview dictates they should want.
 
So, I'm not sure the situation is as cut and dried as you make it out to be.
Nothing is ever cut and dry.....and neither are agreements with auto plants you pretty much generalized as useless.

FWIW, I am good friends with one of their head civil engineers. He told me 2 weeks ago they're pissed and I've heard the same thing through other channels. It's been a problem for years because it creates tension between the three counties. As I understand it, a tax District had been created ~25 or so years ago (>25 years after the park started) to allow minimal taxes and then only to provide services to the tax district and nothing else, so no taxes can be levied to help infrastructure outside the park....say for seeding entrepreneurs. So the county and city have to deal with all the burdens outside the park. The park was originally all tax free though and minimal taxation since the mid 1980s is absolutely still a tax incentive.

The law may have been changed to allow residential/commercial to be taxed at a higher rate, but my understanding is the RTP Foundation is absolutely against any changes and no agreement has been reached with Durham....RTP just moved ahead anyway. Wake is also upset for some reason, but I don't understand why..might have to do with competition for mixed use. Orange acts like they always do, like they don't need anyone else. Great entrepreneural spirit there!
 
Well, if you heard it from a civil engineer 2 years ago it must be true.

The news stories I found on the internetz indicated that Wake and Durham counties had agreed on the zoning changes and lobbied the legislature to pass the law I posted. I couldn't find anything indicating that Durham City was opposed. If it was a big deal you'd think there'd be a story out there about the city council breathing fire.
 
Well, if you heard it from a civil engineer 2 years ago it must be true.

The news stories I found on the internetz indicated that Wake and Durham counties had agreed on the zoning changes and lobbied the legislature to pass the law I posted. I couldn't find anything indicating that Durham City was opposed. If it was a big deal you'd think there'd be a story out there about the city council breathing fire.
Ahem....two WEEKS ago. The agreement I mentioned refers to one between RTP and Durham, not the law change. Durham being pissed is a constant and well known around these parts so...not really news.

Regardless, it's still subsidized tax incentives that you are against....but for some reason for in this case.
 
Sorry, I misread the two weeks.

In any case, I am not sure either one of us really understands how RTP works. But based on my limited understanding, I am pretty confident that RTP is a very, very different operation than the current auto-factory megasite fantasy going on in the Triad. Just to name one big difference, the RTP office buildings appear to pay taxes, and pay at a higher rate than other county taxpayers, for the services they receive. How is that a tax subsidy, exactly?

Here's another very big difference: The common areas of the park that are owned by the foundation are not taxed, but those are not owned by a private multinational sending all its profits out of state or out of the country. They are owned by foundation based right here in NC devoted to the safekeeping of a huge NC asset, namely RTP, for the good of the citizens of the state of North Carolina. I'm not sure how this is a tax subsidy. From what I can tell, the private companies that live in the park pay owner's association dues or some other amounts to the foundation for use of the common areas.

The only "tax subsidy" I can find at RTP is the prohibition against the city of Durham annexing it. But if the county, and not the city, is providing the services, why does the city have a beef? I guess they just want the tax revenue and they can't get it.
 
I'm not sure what you're referring to. The max tax rate by law for the RTP area is and has been 0.10 per $100 since the mid-1980s (the URSD is the new designation). Before that it was 0.

The larger service district is currently limited to a rate of 10¢ per $100 valuation, while the URSD may levy property taxes at the same rate as a neighboring city. - See more at: http://thertpblog.org/2012/07/31/master-plan-update-legislative-changes-approved/#more-6412

Durham county normally assesses 0.74 per $100 for property taxes, and 0.05 -0.25 for fire services.


http://www.durham-nc.com/newcomers/newcomer-services/taxes.html


A business in the county spends 0.64 more per $100 of value in county taxes. That's an incentive is it not? Maybe I'm missing something. The downside is the extremely limiting set of rules that companies have to follow to be IN the park.

Lots of the big companies in the park send their money out of the state, and Nortel, Burroughs, and Erickson sent them overseas...just like what you charge a car company of doing. I think you just want to believe it's a lot different because it's not heavy industry, but it really isn't that much different. It takes advantage of the high tech training in the area. Spartanburg took advantage of the high concentration of engineers in the SC upstate for the BMW plant. Other places have available labor.

The reason the park is changing BTW is, in part, because those "NC assets" have been poorly managed.
 
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