vadimivich
Well-known member
I put a short version of this in the drug testing thread, but thought it's definitely worth having a real discussion about. The entire concept around safety nets, personal responsibility, social benefits, etc ... it has to be anchored in something: "What is the lowest point a fellow human in our society can reach that we accept?". Take the biggest fuck up possible, someone with no personal responsibility at all, someone who literally goes out of their way to harm their own advancement in every way possible. How far are we willing to let them fall? Do we let them live without a home? Do we let them starve? Do we let them die from easily treatable illnesses? What happens to the children they might have (through more bad choices of their own, which obviously the children have no say in)?
To some extent it's simple: there has to be a basic safety net that you cannot be failed out of (i.e - an absolute floor that is not "earned" in any way) OR you have to be ok with people in our modern society dying of malnutrition, exposure, etc. Not everyone will make good choices, it's simply not possible for that to be the case.
We need to agree as a society what that floor is, and we need to have a real discussion about it. This has to be something we agree on together, and there cannot be resentment that it exists (in fact, just making it a conversation will help with the resentment). It's something we should take pride in, as a mark of how advanced we are as a civilization.
Personally? I think everyone who is a non-criminal member of our society should have reliable access to a warm, safe, clean, covered place to sleep, running water, electricity, reliable food and access to necessary health care including sanitary products / basic self care items / birth control. Children should have access to education (K-12 minimum) including food and access to teachers / tutors / after hours activities if needed to make up for completely failed parents. These benefits should be non-revocable as long someone is not a criminal (and in fact are the same things a criminal would receive if they were jailed). And we have to accept that there are some in our society (a small %, but some) who are never going to aspire to anything more than this and are just "failures". We cannot pretend or be angry about that fact.
To some extent it's simple: there has to be a basic safety net that you cannot be failed out of (i.e - an absolute floor that is not "earned" in any way) OR you have to be ok with people in our modern society dying of malnutrition, exposure, etc. Not everyone will make good choices, it's simply not possible for that to be the case.
We need to agree as a society what that floor is, and we need to have a real discussion about it. This has to be something we agree on together, and there cannot be resentment that it exists (in fact, just making it a conversation will help with the resentment). It's something we should take pride in, as a mark of how advanced we are as a civilization.
Personally? I think everyone who is a non-criminal member of our society should have reliable access to a warm, safe, clean, covered place to sleep, running water, electricity, reliable food and access to necessary health care including sanitary products / basic self care items / birth control. Children should have access to education (K-12 minimum) including food and access to teachers / tutors / after hours activities if needed to make up for completely failed parents. These benefits should be non-revocable as long someone is not a criminal (and in fact are the same things a criminal would receive if they were jailed). And we have to accept that there are some in our society (a small %, but some) who are never going to aspire to anything more than this and are just "failures". We cannot pretend or be angry about that fact.
