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Why we should care about the debt/Fed printing money

Sgt Hulka

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http://www.cnbc.com/id/101062461

I feel like Moonz should be posting this... and I would like to get some of the more savvy finance peoples (non political)take on this as it is not my forte.

The Fed's 'hidden agenda' behind money-printing
Text Size

Published: Wednesday, 25 Sep 2013 | 12:04 PM ET
By: Peter J. Tanous

Getty Images
The markets were surprised when the Federal Reserve did not announce a tapering of the quantitative easing bond buying program at its September meeting. Indeed, its signal to the market that it was keeping interest rates low was welcome, but there may be a hidden agenda.

Since it began in late 2008, QE has spurred a vigorous debate about its merits, both positive and negative.

On the positive side, the easy money and low interest rates resulting from quantitative easing have been a shot in the arm to the economy, fueling the stock market and helping the housing recovery. On the negative side, The Fed accomplished QE by "printing money" to buy Treasurys, and through the massive power of its purchases drove interest rates to record lows.

But in the process, the Fed accumulated an unprecedented balance sheet of more than $3.6 trillion which needs to go somewhere, someday.

But we know all this.

I believe that one of the most important reasons the Fed is determined to keep interest rates low is one that is rarely talked about, and which comprises a dark economic foreboding that should frighten us all.

Let me start with a question: How would you feel if you knew that almost all of the money you pay in personal income tax went to pay just one bill, the interest on the debt? Chances are, you and millions of Americans would find that completely unacceptable and indeed they should.

But that is where we may be heading.
Thanks to the Fed, the interest rate paid on our national debt is at an historic low of 2.4 percent, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Given the U.S.'s huge accumulated deficit, this low interest rate is important to keep debt servicing costs down.

But isn't it fair to ask what the interest cost of our debt would be if interest rates returned to a more normal level? What's a normal level? How about the average interest rate the Treasury paid on U.S. debt over the last 20 years?

(Read more: Fed in 'monetary roach motel,' won't taper: Schiff)

That rate is 5.7percent, not extravagantly high at all by historic standards.

So here's where it gets scary: U.S. debt held by the public today is about $12 trillion. The budget deficit projections are going down, true, but the United States is still incurring an annual budget deficit by spending more than we take in in taxes and revenue.

The CBO estimates that by 2020 total debt held by the public will be $16.6 trillion as a result of the rising accumulated debt.

Do the math: If we were to pay an average interest rate on our debt of 5.7 percent, rather than the 2.4 percent we pay today, in 2020 our debt service cost will be about $930 billion.

Now compare that to the amount the Internal Revenue Service collects from us in personal income taxes.

In 2012, that amount was $1.1 trillion, meaning that if interest rates went back to a more normal level of, say, 5.7 percent, 85 percent of all personal income taxes collected would go to servicing the debt. No wonder the Fed is worried.

Some economists will also suggest that interest rates may go much higher than 5.7 percent largely as a result of the massive QE exercise of printing money at an unprecedented rate. We just don't know what the effect of all this will be but many economists warn that it can only result in inflation down the road.
(Read more: Did the Fed just pop the stock market bubble?)

As of today, interest rates are rising, and if this is a turning point, it is a major one.

Rates in the U.S. peaked in 1980 (remember the 14 percent Treasury bonds?) so if we are at the point of reversing a 33-year downward trend, who wants to predict how this will affect the economy?

One thing is clear: Based on CBO projections, if interest rates just rise to their 20-year average, we will have an untenable, unacceptable interest rate bill whose beneficiaries are China, Japan, and others who own our bonds.

And if Americans find out that the lion's share of their income tax payments are going to service the debt, prepare for a new American revolution.
 
"The Creature From Jekyll Island" should be required reading in every American high school.
 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101062461

I feel like Moonz should be posting this... and I would like to get some of the more savvy finance peoples (non political)take on this as it is not my forte.

The Fed's 'hidden agenda' behind money-printing
Text Size

Published: Wednesday, 25 Sep 2013 | 12:04 PM ET
By: Peter J. Tanous

Getty Images
The markets were surprised when the Federal Reserve did not announce a tapering of the quantitative easing bond buying program at its September meeting. Indeed, its signal to the market that it was keeping interest rates low was welcome, but there may be a hidden agenda.

Since it began in late 2008, QE has spurred a vigorous debate about its merits, both positive and negative.

On the positive side, the easy money and low interest rates resulting from quantitative easing have been a shot in the arm to the economy, fueling the stock market and helping the housing recovery. On the negative side, The Fed accomplished QE by "printing money" to buy Treasurys, and through the massive power of its purchases drove interest rates to record lows.

But in the process, the Fed accumulated an unprecedented balance sheet of more than $3.6 trillion which needs to go somewhere, someday.

But we know all this.

I believe that one of the most important reasons the Fed is determined to keep interest rates low is one that is rarely talked about, and which comprises a dark economic foreboding that should frighten us all.

Let me start with a question: How would you feel if you knew that almost all of the money you pay in personal income tax went to pay just one bill, the interest on the debt? Chances are, you and millions of Americans would find that completely unacceptable and indeed they should.

But that is where we may be heading.
Thanks to the Fed, the interest rate paid on our national debt is at an historic low of 2.4 percent, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Given the U.S.'s huge accumulated deficit, this low interest rate is important to keep debt servicing costs down.

But isn't it fair to ask what the interest cost of our debt would be if interest rates returned to a more normal level? What's a normal level? How about the average interest rate the Treasury paid on U.S. debt over the last 20 years?

(Read more: Fed in 'monetary roach motel,' won't taper: Schiff)

That rate is 5.7percent, not extravagantly high at all by historic standards.

So here's where it gets scary: U.S. debt held by the public today is about $12 trillion. The budget deficit projections are going down, true, but the United States is still incurring an annual budget deficit by spending more than we take in in taxes and revenue.

The CBO estimates that by 2020 total debt held by the public will be $16.6 trillion as a result of the rising accumulated debt.

Do the math: If we were to pay an average interest rate on our debt of 5.7 percent, rather than the 2.4 percent we pay today, in 2020 our debt service cost will be about $930 billion.

Now compare that to the amount the Internal Revenue Service collects from us in personal income taxes.

In 2012, that amount was $1.1 trillion, meaning that if interest rates went back to a more normal level of, say, 5.7 percent, 85 percent of all personal income taxes collected would go to servicing the debt. No wonder the Fed is worried.

Some economists will also suggest that interest rates may go much higher than 5.7 percent largely as a result of the massive QE exercise of printing money at an unprecedented rate. We just don't know what the effect of all this will be but many economists warn that it can only result in inflation down the road.
(Read more: Did the Fed just pop the stock market bubble?)

As of today, interest rates are rising, and if this is a turning point, it is a major one.

Rates in the U.S. peaked in 1980 (remember the 14 percent Treasury bonds?) so if we are at the point of reversing a 33-year downward trend, who wants to predict how this will affect the economy?

One thing is clear: Based on CBO projections, if interest rates just rise to their 20-year average, we will have an untenable, unacceptable interest rate bill whose beneficiaries are China, Japan, and others who own our bonds.

And if Americans find out that the lion's share of their income tax payments are going to service the debt, prepare for a new American revolution.

this is pretty poorly written by someone who doesn't quite understand what goes on.
I mean, I'm not necessarily dovish (nor am I super hawkish either), but this statement "One thing is clear: Based on CBO projections, if interest rates just rise to their 20-year average, we will have an untenable, unacceptable interest rate bill whose beneficiaries are China, Japan, and others who own our bonds." is just terrible. If interest rates rise, the holders of our bonds are going to get crushed, also I believe the largest holder of US Public debt is the Social Security Trust (which is to say, it's not the Chinese, although they do own a lot of debt, which in itself is a whole other lesson in currency manipulation) As interest rates go up, bond values go down (so if bond holders bought a $1000 bond, if interest rates go up, that bond holders bond would be worth less than $1000). Also, we don't pay a fixed rate on our debt, some debt was issued 20 years ago and a different coupon is paid vs debt that was accumulated this year. changes in interest rates only affect the payments on new debt.
The IRS revenue sounds a little misleading. $1.1 Trillion sounds low, it doesn't seem like it's accounting for all the other taxes that are collected (i.e. corporate taxes)
 
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Why doesn't that article include all taxes?

Why does the author assume 5.7% interest when we haven't paid that in very long time? Another issue is deficits are going down and a huge amount of the higher interest rates that are on the books will be retired.
 
The interest rate wouldn't just magically jump to 5.7% based on market rate considering almost all treasury debt is fixed rate. I'm very much against our debt funded spending spree but at least know what you're talking about.
 
this is pretty poorly written by someone who doesn't quite understand what goes on.
I mean, I'm not necessarily dovish (nor am I super hawkish either), but this statement "One thing is clear: Based on CBO projections, if interest rates just rise to their 20-year average, we will have an untenable, unacceptable interest rate bill whose beneficiaries are China, Japan, and others who own our bonds." is just terrible. If interest rates rise, the holders of our bonds are going to get crushed, also I believe the largest holder of US Public debt is the Social Security Trust (which is to say, it's not the Chinese, although they do own a lot of debt, which in itself is a whole other lesson in currency manipulation) As interest rates go up, bond values go down (so if bond holders bought a $1000 bond, if interest rates go up, that bond holders bond would be worth less than $1000). Also, we don't pay a fixed rate on our debt, some debt was issued 20 years ago and a different coupon is paid vs debt that was accumulated this year. changes in interest rates only affect the payments on new debt.
The IRS revenue sounds a little misleading. $1.1 Trillion sounds low, it doesn't seem like it's accounting for all the other taxes that are collected (i.e. corporate taxes)

Yep, federal tax receipts were ~$2.4T in 2012.
 
I don't claim to know much about bonds and debt financing but it's pretty clear that author knows even less than me.
 
923, what he knows is the RW talking points and that Faux News, WSJ and other lacky outlets will treat him like a combination of Einstein and Diogenes.
 
I don't claim to know much about bonds and debt financing but it's pretty clear that author knows even less than me.

Same here. That was a tough read.
 
If interest rates rise, the holders of our bonds are going to get crushed,

If rates rose to 5.7% tomorrow, Treasury could buy back almost all the outstanding debt at a huge discount. We could pay for this by issuing new debt at the higher interest rate levels, which would reduce the face value of debt outstanding

Then, our debt to GDP ratio would be well below the magical 90% number and rapid economic growth would be unleashed. There'd be sunshine, rainbows and unicorns for everyone!!

Total dollar value of interest payments would not change, however.
 
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If rates rose to 5.7% tomorrow, Treasury could buy back almost all the outstanding debt at a huge discount. We could pay for this by issuing new debt at the higher interest rate levels, which would reduce the face value of debt outstanding

Then, our debt to GDP ratio would be well below the magical 90% number and rapid economic growth would be unleashed. There'd be sunshine, rainbows and unicorns for everyone!!

Total dollar value of interest payments would not change, however.

Why? Is there a call feature or something on Treasuries? Thought experiment -- if I bought a T-bill as a store of value, willingly accepting the low interest, could I not hold it to maturity regardless of prevailing rates? Or is the Treasury able to force me to sell?
 
The reality is the Fed and Congress should work together to print at least $2T in T-Bills to completely upgrade our infrastructure and build a 21st century electrical grid.

It makes business and national sense. Our roads, highways, bridges, damns, riverbeds are eroding. They will have to be fixed. We have very low interest rates. We have very low cost of labor and every day we delay the cost of repairs grow.

Our electrical grid is an Achilles Heel on multiple level. It can fall apart. It can be a target for terrorism and is highly inefficient. The Koch brothers, electrical power providers and coal people oppose this sensible project because a new grid would cost them trillions over the next few decades as it saves business and families those dollars. They don't care about what's best for America.

This should the #1 issue for fiscal conservatives, but they oppose it. They don't want to expand our economy if it means putting money into the pockets of people who might not vote for them. If they cared about America as much as they cared about being elected, this would already be done. It's the no brainer of all no brainers.
 
Why? Is there a call feature or something on Treasuries? Thought experiment -- if I bought a T-bill as a store of value, willingly accepting the low interest, could I not hold it to maturity regardless of prevailing rates? Or is the Treasury able to force me to sell?

Treasury buys back the debt via the open market, the same way the FED has purchased 2 trillion worth of bonds.
 
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