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wrangor pans noah

Go said:
That's what the Gospel of Matthew is all about but there are 3 others, Luke calling to the Gentiles, Mark telling the story succinctly and John the evangelical?
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I wouldn't paint them with such rigid boundaries. And it was more that they were writing in different cultural situations (geography/cities/congregations) than to specific audiences regardless of location.

The phrase "this was to fulfill what the prophet said" shouldn't mean that Isaiah/Daniel/whoever were predicting the future, but rather that Jesus can be seen as fitting into that prophecy. So when Isaiah seems to be often talking about Jesus, Jesus might certainly seem to fit, but Isaiah had in mind the release from Babylon. Marcus Borg (while being too liberal for some, myself included) does have some really solid stuff on the idea of NT authors doing Midrash on the OT through the story of Jesus- particularly in his First Christmas and Last Week books.
 
That's really interesting.

On a basic level, the OT is included in the Holy Bible because in order to shape our future we need to learn the history of the past and therefore take the lessons learned there and apply them to our lives. A lot of the OT is the Jews failing God but he keeps letting them hit the restart button.

During Jesus' time they had to justify how he was the Messiah so of course they tied him to the stories in the OT/Torah and the prophecies. I've always loved how he was supposed to be a great Warrior that was to deliver Israel but in reality he was a warrior of peace and love.
 
bigdoublezero said:
His position on Santa notwithstanding, Rev crushes on these threads.
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Thanks. Didn't realize I was known as the "Santa hating preacher" around here, but I guess the shoe fits (though for the record: I'm not anti-Santa, just anti-Santa/gifts being more important than Jesus.).
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Story tellers have been using classic folk stories to tell a different story for years and years. Look at every Disney cartoon
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I know, I just want him to pick on the Muslims. That would take real stones. Its easy to butcher a classic Judeo-Christian tale.
 
Go said:
That's really interesting.

On a basic level, the OT is included in the Holy Bible because in order to shape our future we need to learn the history of the past and therefore take the lessons learned there and apply them to our lives. A lot of the OT is the Jews failing God but he keeps letting them hit the restart button.

During Jesus' time they had to justify how he was the Messiah so of course they tied him to the stories in the OT/Torah and the prophecies. I've always loved how he was supposed to be a great Warrior that was to deliver Israel but in reality he was a warrior of peace and love.
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That is an awesome part of the narrative. I forget who said it, but some preacher/theologian said "the way to tell the difference between a made-up god and the Living God is that a real god will surprise you."

ETA- I'd also say that the OT is considered Scripture to Xians because the whole of the Bible is the story of God and Israel, and Jesus is the primary character in that story (b/c Jesus is God).
 
RevDeac06 said:
Thanks. Didn't realize I was known as the "Santa hating preacher" around here, but I guess the shoe fits (though for the record: I'm not anti-Santa, just anti-Santa/gifts being more important than Jesus.).
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A good preacher should talk about this every year. Nothing wrong w/ Santa unless you're the Church Lady, but like Lent, don't let the giving up your daily chocolate get in the way of your daily devotion and getting closer to God (the point of Lent). Don't let Christmas presents and the hassle/rush/stress get in the way of the true celebration of that Holiday.
 
I also love the "unlikely candidate" theme. The guy that gives out the 10 commandments? He's a murder/stutterer. Noah? rando farmer who likes to booze a bit. Guy who defeats Goliath and becomes King of Israel? Oh he's a lowly 10th born (?) shepherd kid w/ a sling who will later kill a friend cause his wife was hot.
 
Go said:
A good preacher should talk about this every year. Nothing wrong w/ Santa unless you're the Church Lady, but like Lent, don't let the giving up your daily chocolate get in the way of your daily devotion and getting closer to God (the point of Lent). Don't let Christmas presents and the hassle/rush/stress get in the way of the true celebration of that Holiday.
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Reminds me of what St. Augustine said about Lenten disciplines: "don't give us sex for Lent; you'll be looking forward to Easter for the wrong reasons."
 
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Go said:
I know, I just want him to pick on the Muslims. That would take real stones. Its easy to butcher a classic Judeo-Christian tale.
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Two things:

1. You think "Noah" was picking on Christians?
2. Why do you want someone to pick on Islam?
 
Go said:
I want Aronofsky to give his secular take on the Muhammad story next.

Then I'll give him props. Otherwise this was just a shitty slap in the face to a classic Judeo-Christian story.
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as you said on the pit thread, the flood narrative isn't just judeo-christian
 
TownieDeac said:
as you said on the pit thread, the flood narrative isn't just judeo-christian
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And was very likely "ripped off" from other cultures. The vast majority of legit scholars would say that Genesis 1-9 isn't based in literal history of any sort, but rather are cultural myths seeking to understand how it is they got to be where they were when Abram (whose historicity is likewise somewhat debated) showed up on the scene.
 
Maybe this belongs on the "are you a good person" thread, but I've delighted in the fact that Noah has pissed off so many Christians for being "inaccurate", especially in light of the fact that the movie is far more in line with the traditional jewish understanding of the story.
 
As a Christian, I really despise the modern (Western?) Fox News Christian evangelical state.
 
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Go said:
I know, I just want him to pick on the Muslims. That would take real stones. Its easy to butcher a classic Judeo-Christian tale.
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Wait, you mean he picked a popular historical story that a ton of movie-goers already know about and might be interested in paying money to see? Instead of one that a much smaller percentage of the population knows about? NO WAY
 
Studios have probably been lobbing big money disaster type pics at Aronofsky for years and finally he was like, "yea i'll do this one it's weird enough."
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Wait, you mean he picked a popular historical story that a ton of movie-goers already know about and might be interested in paying money to see? Instead of one that a much smaller percentage of the population knows about? NO WAY
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I'm sure a movie about about Muhammad would sell well.
 
Go said:
I also love the "unlikely candidate" theme. The guy that gives out the 10 commandments? He's a murder/stutterer. Noah? rando farmer who likes to booze a bit. Guy who defeats Goliath and becomes King of Israel? Oh he's a lowly 10th born (?) shepherd kid w/ a sling who will later kill a friend cause his wife was hot.
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When you put it like that, it makes God seem like Wellman doing a coaching search.
 
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