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Big 5 conference money disparity could lead to a shake up with the Big 12

Guys, you both are correct. It was a combination of subpar on the field talent and subpar coaching.
 
Lohengrin said:
bkf, everything else equal, what is it about size that cripples a school's ability to compete?
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Exactly, Baylor has the will to win and although private and Baptist, but quite larger with 14,000 undergrads, they have found the coach and the offense that works in football enough to compete with the giants of college football. Their endowment of $1.1 Billion is our size. Their women's basketball team has certainly found a way to be competitive the past 10 years also. And they are a US News ranked school at #71 so that is not shabby either.

Miami is another with 11,000 undergrads, an endowment of not quite $1 Billion and a US News & World Report ranking of #51 that competes very well in football, basketball, baseball & women's basketball.

So we are our own worst enemy in that we don't give a crap and don't try with this administration.
 
Lohengrin said:
bkf, everything else equal, what is it about size that cripples a school's ability to compete?
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Actually, size is probably not as important as the willingness to lower your standards and/or cheat with under the table payments to get many of the better athletes. If WF is willing to basically sell its academic soul by lowering its academic standards to whatever is necessary to get some of these players and then do whatever is necessary...legal or not...to keep them academically eligible, they might be able to win a few more games. And I've noticed that several posters here have indicated that they would support this kind of change in order to be more competitive. I guess it depends upon one's priorities. If you think the University's mission is to become a big-time football whore, go for it. Otherwise, as long as WF remains in the ACC they are going to be a permanent doormat in the conference as far as football is concerned. It doesn't matter who the coach or the AD is, the results are going to be the same unless you are willing to abandon your academic standards for athletes and just admit that you had rather be a football whore. The small size of the school just makes it that much harder to hide your true intentions.
 
bobknightfan said:
Actually, size is probably not as important as the willingness to lower your standards and/or cheat with under the table payments to get many of the better athletes. If WF is willing to basically sell its academic soul by lowering its academic standards to whatever is necessary to get some of these players and then do whatever is necessary...legal or not...to keep them academically eligible, they might be able to win a few more games. And I've noticed that several posters here have indicated that they would support this kind of change in order to be more competitive. I guess it depends upon one's priorities. If you think the University's mission is to become a big-time football whore, go for it. Otherwise, as long as WF remains in the ACC they are going to be a permanent doormat in the conference as far as football is concerned. It doesn't matter who the coach or the AD is, the results are going to be the same unless you are willing to abandon your academic standards for athletes and just admit that you had rather be a football whore. The small size of the school just makes it that much harder to hide your true intentions.
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Small Private School and Rose Bowl Champion With Soild Academic Standards Stanford says hi!
 
Pilchard said:
Small Private School and Rose Bowl Champion With Soild Academic Standards Stanford says hi!
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Wake Forest ain't Stanford. For that matter, WF ain't even Duke....even though many here seem to think it is....but it sure as hell ain't Stanford.

Comparing Wake Forest with Stanford is like comparing K-Mart with Walmart....and takes one helluva nerve & ego.

Again, having those kinds of illusions and even making that comparison shows how big the perception problem is here.
 
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bobknightfan said:
Wake Forest ain't Stanford. For that matter, WF ain't even Duke....even though many here seem to think it is....but it sure as hell ain't Stanford.

Comparing Wake Forest with Stanford is like comparing K-Mart with Walmart....and takes one helluva nerve & ego.

Again, having those kinds of illusions and even making that comparison shows how big the perception problem is here.
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Is it bad that I don't know if Wake is K-Mart or Walmart in that analogy?
 
Wake isn't Stanford because Stanford actually wants to be good at everything.
 
bobknightfan said:
Wake Forest ain't Stanford. For that matter, WF ain't even Duke....even though many here seem to think it is....but it sure as hell ain't Stanford.

Comparing Wake Forest with Stanford is like comparing K-Mart with Walmart....and takes one helluva nerve & ego.

Again, having those kinds of illusions and even making that comparison shows how big the perception problem is here.
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OK, so now you admit that your initial point that "small private schools with solid academic standards are unable to compete on a high level in college football" is false. Your point is that WF can't compete at that level because WF is not KMart or maybe because WF is not Walmart.

Also, you acknowledge that WF did recently compete at a high level in college football for three years, but Jim Grobe is only person in the world ever capable of such magic.

Got it.

Thanks for the clarifications.
 
Pilchard said:
OK, so now you admit that your initial point that "small private schools with solid academic standards are unable to compete on a high level in college football" is false. Your point is that WF can't compete at that level because WF is not KMart or maybe because WF is not Walmart. I haven't admitted anything of the sort. WF is in no way comparable to Stanford. Stanford has 7,000 undergrads and nearly 10,000 graduate students. WF has 4,700 undergrads and 2,600 graduate students. Stanford has an endowment of more than $22 billion. WF has an endowment just barely above $1 billion.

Also, you acknowledge that WF did recently compete at a high level in college football for three years, but Jim Grobe is only person in the world ever capable of such magic. Well, in the entire history of WF football, Grobe is the only person who ever had three straight winning seasons....so, in the last 100 years at least, Grobe has been the only person who was capable of doing that.

Got it.

Thanks for the clarifications.
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Do you guys really not understand the difference between K-Mart and Walmart? Maybe that explains why you do not understand the difference between Wake Forest and Stanford.
 
We could lower our standards and it wouldn't matter. Kids are attracted to places where there are things to do. W-S is a shithole with very few options for college kids. Always has been.

Another one of the Wellman/Hatch failures has been a failure to develop all that shit they bought up on Deacon Blvd. For fuck's sake put some shops, restaurants, and bars there. Make the football and basketball gamedays and all-day experience with shit to do around the venues.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
We could lower our standards and it wouldn't matter. Kids are attracted to places where there are things to do. W-S is a shithole with very few options for college kids. Always has been.

Another one of the Wellman/Hatch failures has been a failure to develop all that shit they bought up on Deacon Blvd. For fuck's sake put some shops, restaurants, and bars there. Make the football and basketball gamedays and all-day experience with shit to do around the venues.
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Very good points. Not much in the way of a social life for athletes is yet another negative for WF when competing for players needed to win.
 
bobknightfan said:
Very good points. Not much in the way of a social life for athletes is yet another negative for WF when competing for players needed to win.
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Like Durham, Waco & Palo Alto are heaven on earth places to be a student?

To change the subject back to where it was supposed to go, I heard Tommy Bowden on College Sirius this morning being interviewed and it was very interesting. He thinks there will be ONE more major realignment of the Power 5 and they will all pull out of the NCAA and re-write their own rules and have their own football deals in line with the TV deals. They will also only play other Power 5 teams and the non-Power 5 will be left to fend for themselves.
 
I see it. In a 4 team playoff of conference champions, non-con SOS or even going undefeated out of conference doesn't matter. Non-con games are just exhibitions for TV. I think the future will be four power conferences playing 3 non-con games and 9 conference games.

People here can say that Wake would be fine outside of a power conference, but would they really be fine not playing the 64 teams that do make it into a power conference?
 
TheReff said:
Like Durham, Waco & Palo Alto are heaven on earth places to be a student?

To change the subject back to where it was supposed to go, I heard Tommy Bowden on College Sirius this morning being interviewed and it was very interesting. He thinks there will be ONE more major realignment of the Power 5 and they will all pull out of the NCAA and re-write their own rules and have their own football deals in line with the TV deals. They will also only play other Power 5 teams and the non-Power 5 will be left to fend for themselves.
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If they withdraw from the NCAA, then they will be putting their tax exempt status in serious jeopardy.
 
PhDeac said:
I see it. In a 4 team playoff of conference champions, non-con SOS or even going undefeated out of conference doesn't matter. Non-con games are just exhibitions for TV. I think the future will be four power conferences playing 3 non-con games and 9 conference games.

People here can say that Wake would be fine outside of a power conference, but would they really be fine not playing the 64 teams that do make it into a power conference?
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Hopefully force ND into one of the 4 team leagues and have 4 super-conferences of 16 teams each. The ACC would already be set at 16 "if" ND joins us. It is the Big 12 left scrambling, which was the whole point of the OK president/AD uprising in whatever "bids" they may be getting from other conferences to join, whether it be the SEC, Big 10 or PAC. What I wonder if & when all this comes around is with OK, who do they come with? OK St with some legislative pressure? Texas has already had overtures from the Pac-12 and they would need 4 total. Adding all from Texas could be UT, TT, TCU & Baylor for instance. Big 10 only needs 2 & the SEC only needs 2 so the OK's could go one direction & the KS's could go the other. Now what that does is leave out one important team one way or another--West Virginia in my alignment. And you also have BYU that wants in [may never get in with their older guys from 2 year mission deal]. So unless they leave out BYU, somebody takes WV and they let ND stay independent, that will be 65 teams. Or take BYU and figure out how to have 66. Decisions, decisions.
 
TheReff said:
Hopefully force ND into one of the 4 team leagues and have 4 super-conferences of 16 teams each. The ACC would already be set at 16 "if" ND joins us. It is the Big 12 left scrambling, which was the whole point of the OK president/AD uprising in whatever "bids" they may be getting from other conferences to join, whether it be the SEC, Big 10 or PAC. What I wonder if & when all this comes around is with OK, who do they come with? OK St with some legislative pressure? Texas has already had overtures from the Pac-12 and they would need 4 total. Adding all from Texas could be UT, TT, TCU & Baylor for instance. Big 10 only needs 2 & the SEC only needs 2 so the OK's could go one direction & the KS's could go the other. Now what that does is leave out one important team one way or another--West Virginia in my alignment. And you also have BYU that wants in [may never get in with their older guys from 2 year mission deal]. So unless they leave out BYU, somebody takes WV and they let ND stay independent, that will be 65 teams. Or take BYU and figure out how to have 66. Decisions, decisions.
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I've said for a long time that the ACC should have already taken West Virginia. They are good in both revenue sports, have a fantastic fan base that travels well....and have some great ready-made & potential rivalries with existing ACC schools. WV-Pitt is one of the biggest rivalries in the country. WV-VT & WV-UVA would also be great rivalries, as well as WV-Louisville, probably. Finally, WV is within reasonable driving distance for those 4 schools, as well as the Big Four, Clemson and even Georgia Tech. So that is 10 of the existing ACC schools that would also form rivalries with WV as the years go by.

It's impossible to have all the schools from a conference within driving distance of each other....though that was pretty much the case with the original ACC, which made the conference "special" by creating so many rivalries.....but stringing out conferences 1,400 miles from Syracuse to Miami is ridiculous.
 
TheReff said:
Like Durham, Waco & Palo Alto are heaven on earth places to be a student?

To change the subject back to where it was supposed to go, I heard Tommy Bowden on College Sirius this morning being interviewed and it was very interesting. He thinks there will be ONE more major realignment of the Power 5 and they will all pull out of the NCAA and re-write their own rules and have their own football deals in line with the TV deals. They will also only play other Power 5 teams and the non-Power 5 will be left to fend for themselves.
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I'd live almost anywhere before I'd live in fucking Waco.
 
I can't speak for Durham, but having a major revenue program with national championships in its pedigree and a HOF coach obviously makes it more attractive than W-S. Palo Alto is in one of the most beautiful places in the US, just outside one of its coolest and most unique metropolitan areas. And Waco is loads better than W-S. Some of that is due to Briles, but Waco has things going on, especially compared to where it was when my wife was there. Plus the football players get laid all the time with all the raping going on there.
 
PhDeac said:
Pilch, you were constantly on my ass for posting the same stuff you posted.
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let_it_go__by_jan_jane-d73khqj.gif
 
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