Big 5 conference money disparity could lead to a shake up with the Big 12

[bobknightfan]

Perhaps, but again does KU have a choice to part for greener passengers without their little brother? And if not KSU, who do they take? WVU? It would make sense, but I'd think academics would be an issue there, but maybe not.

I don't understand why anyone even brings up the subject of academics when discussing $35 million/year/school TV contracts for big-time college athletics. That's a joke and total hypocrisy. I mean, they are paying coaches $2-3 million and professors $80,000 or so? You can't be that big of a whore for athletics money and seriously claim that you really give a damn about academics. Why can't people just be honest about this and admit that the P-5 schools have now become nothing more than big-time sports whores?

 

[canadiandeac]

the idea that academics has any implication on college athletics was proven to be gone completely with the UNC-Cheat fiasco. Only schools that wish to be roadkill will stick to being a proud academic institution. Power conferences are nothing more than development leagues for the pros. You can either hop on the money train and enjoy success, or pretend to care about academics and get killed in every major sport.

 

[TheReff]

I don't understand why anyone even brings up the subject of academics when discussing $35 million/year/school TV contracts for big-time college athletics. That's a joke and total hypocrisy. I mean, they are paying coaches $2-3 million and professors $80,000 or so? You can't be that big of a whore for athletics money and seriously claim that you really give a damn about academics. Why can't people just be honest about this and admit that the P-5 schools have now become nothing more than big-time sports whores?

And as the P-5 schools do well, their admission applications go way up, therefore helping the school. Many school presidents [not the egg head prez's like at Wake Forest] actually realize this. We had big increases during the ACC title years of Tim Duncan in 95-96 & also the Jim Grobe football Orange Bowl year in 2006. Much better national recognition gets you much better overall acceptance in the academic world so if both would work with each other at a place like Wake, it would help out. Our prof's don't even realize the $$$ they do get are because we are an ACC school--that status. If we were not, we could hardly attract people away from top institutions and we would be paying at Furman type levels!

 

[bobknightfan]

And as the P-5 schools do well, their admission applications go way up, therefore helping the school. Many school presidents [not the egg head prez's like at Wake Forest] actually realize this. We had big increases during the ACC title years of Tim Duncan in 95-96 & also the Jim Grobe football Orange Bowl year in 2006. Much better national recognition gets you much better overall acceptance in the academic world so if both would work with each other at a place like Wake, it would help out. Our prof's don't even realize the $$$ they do get are because we are an ACC school--that status. If we were not, we could hardly attract people away from top institutions and we would be paying at Furman type levels!

So it's great to be a big-time sports whore....is that the conclusion you are hinting at?

 

[Lohengrin]

So it's great to be a big-time sports whore....is that the conclusion you are hinting at?

We're a whore doing what we're doing now. If we start winning, we're actually paying our way. Academic suicide is not necessary to win adequately as Duke, Stanford, NWestern etc. have shown.

The problem with your arguments, bkf, is that they are all binary: We try to be academically pristine and suck; or we totally sell out our principles to be Alabama. There's a vast range of outcomes in between that are very palatable. And much of Wake's trouble is attributable to the lack of will and dedication to succeed.

 

[deacondamo]

I can't speak for Durham, but having a major revenue program with national championships in its pedigree and a HOF coach obviously makes it more attractive than W-S. Palo Alto is in one of the most beautiful places in the US, just outside one of its coolest and most unique metropolitan areas. And Waco is loads better than W-S. Some of that is due to Briles, but Waco has things going on, especially compared to where it was when my wife was there. Plus the football players get laid all the time with all the raping going on there.

Chip and JoJo!

 

[bobknightfan]

We're a whore doing what we're doing now. If we start winning, we're actually paying our way. Academic suicide is not necessary to win adequately as Duke, Stanford, NWestern etc. have shown.

The problem with your arguments, bkf, is that they are all binary: We try to be academically pristine and suck; or we totally sell out our principles to be Alabama. There's a vast range of outcomes in between that are very palatable. And much of Wake's trouble is attributable to the lack of will and dedication to succeed.

I get a kick out of people continuing to try to compare WF with Stanford.....or Duke, for that matter....but particularly with Stanford. I'm not that familiar with Northwestern.

 

[Lohengrin]

I'm glad you get "kicks". I fail to see how your kicks are relevant to the discussion no matter how much you repeat it.

 

[awaken]

I get a kick out of a UNC fan calling college athletic programs whores.

Purists should go root for the Patriot League or Ivy League; but they don't bc those teams suck and they can't watch them on TV. So the whore is looking at you in the mirror. Live up to your own standards before crying about someone else's compromises.

 

[bobknightfan]

I get a kick out of a UNC fan calling college athletic programs whores.

Purists should go root for the Patriot League or Ivy League; but they don't bc those teams suck and they can't watch them on TV. So the whore is looking at you in the mirror. Live up to your own standards before crying about someone else's compromises.

First of all, I'm not a Carolina fan. I was pulling against Carolina probably at least 20 years before you were even born. I was the only 10-year old boy in my 5th grade class in 1957 who pulled against them when they played Yale, Canisius, Syracuse, Mich State & Kansas to win the NCAA Championship. I was the guy who left the Greensboro Coliseum and walked 13 miles after the Scoreboard Game in 1975. Don't know you or how old you are, but compared to my experience I'm willing to bet that you are a rank novice when it comes to games having pulled against Carolina.

And, considering that, I don't think I'm interested in replying to the rest of your post.

 

[ibleedgoldandblack]

First of all, I'm not a Carolina fan. I was pulling against Carolina probably at least 20 years before you were even born. I was the only 10-year old boy in my 5th grade class in 1957 who pulled against them when they played Yale, Canisius, Syracuse, Mich State & Kansas to win the NCAA Championship. I was the guy who left the Greensboro Coliseum and walked 13 miles after the Scoreboard Game in 1975. Don't know you or how old you are, but compared to my experience I'm willing to bet that you are a rank novice when it comes to games having pulled against Carolina.

And, considering that, I don't think I'm interested in replying to the rest of your post.

Sure, but then you turned your back on your alma mater and pulled for UNC for nearly 20 years, so I'm not sure why you think you get to act holier than thou when someone calls you on your bullshit. Being old and pulling for WFU a long time ago doesn't make you a better fan than anyone else. Turning your back on WFU and pulling for UNC damn sure does make you a worse fan than anyone who didn't, though.

 

[bobknightfan]

Sure, but then you turned your back on your alma mater and pulled for UNC for nearly 20 years, so I'm not sure why you think you get to act holier than thou when someone calls you on your bullshit. Being old and pulling for WFU a long time ago doesn't make you a better fan than anyone else. Turning your back on WFU and pulling for UNC damn sure does make you a worse fan than anyone who didn't, though.

I wasn't pulling for UNC during those 20 years. I was pulling for Bob Knight's Indiana Hoosiers.

I only pulled for Carolina in one game....as a protest after Wake Forest shit on Carl Tacy after everything he had done for them.

 

[TheReff]

So it's great to be a big-time sports whore....is that the conclusion you are hinting at?

So BKF, would you rather be where we are, lucky still to be in the ACC, where we do play in the Power 5 and we can draw a check for $31 mill. Or would you rather be in AD Mike Bohn's place of Cincinnati, where they are doing a business plan trying to make themselves fully viable to be snapped up by one of the Power 5. That is because they have one of the highest cost of attendance figures in the country at $6000 per athlete and get just over $3 million per team for being in the AAC. He has to do a business plan to pay those schollie athletes based on that paltry AAC payout sum plus whatever football & basketball make [the AAC gets $2 per school from their ESPN contract thru the year 2020 and each got about $1.5 mill per school in total bowl revenues]

So the Cincy's, Houston's, Memphis's and UCF's of the world are trying like hell to compete with BYU, UConn and anybody else out there vying for the next and hopefully last big conference upgrade/realignment. It is all about the almighty $$$ and staying alive in the arms race. Otherwise schools like Wake go back to the worlds of Furman, Davidson & Richmond.

 

[bobknightfan]

So BKF, would you rather be where we are, lucky still to be in the ACC, where we do play in the Power 5 and we can draw a check for $31 mill. Or would you rather be in AD Mike Bohn's place of Cincinnati, where they are doing a business plan trying to make themselves fully viable to be snapped up by one of the Power 5. That is because they have one of the highest cost of attendance figures in the country at $6000 per athlete and get just over $3 million per team for being in the AAC. He has to do a business plan to pay those schollie athletes based on that paltry AAC payout sum plus whatever football & basketball make [the AAC gets $2 per school from their ESPN contract thru the year 2020 and each got about $1.5 mill per school in total bowl revenues]

So the Cincy's, Houston's, Memphis's and UCF's of the world are trying like hell to compete with BYU, UConn and anybody else out there vying for the next and hopefully last big conference upgrade/realignment. It is all about the almighty $$$ and staying alive in the arms race. Otherwise schools like Wake go back to the worlds of Furman, Davidson & Richmond.

Well, to be perfectly honest, I don't give a damn what WF does as far as athletics goes. I've lost all interest in it. Haven't been to any games in several years and don't have any plans to go in the coming years.....especially basketball where, hopefully, I have attended my last game. However, if you are asking me what I think would be best for WF, my answer is that I think they should leave the ACC and try to form some kind of conference with teams such as Davidson, Furman, William & Mary & Richmond, etc. In other words, get out of the rat race. Stop trying to raise & spend the ever-increasing amount of money needed to keep up in the insane world of semi-pro college athletics. The games could be just as enjoyable for the students, but the world wouldn't rise or fall with every win or loss. Things more important than that should be the focus of a college education.

 

[Kent]

The games could be just as enjoyable for the students,

No, they wouldn't.

Things more important than that should be the focus of a college education.

Maybe in theory college and intercollegiate athletics should be separate or prioritized differently, but that hasn't been the case for a long time, and will never be the case again. You have more in common with WFU than you think. You both seem to believe if you reject the way things are and prattle on about how much better things were in the good old days, people will see you as wise and thoughtful, and not silly and out of touch.

Being good in sports can generate a lot of revenue, help with branding, attract student interest, and engage alumni and other fans. That's what good administrators know.

 

[Pilchard]

Kent hit the nail on the head:

On Monday night, the school’s men’s basketball team won the NCAA championship over the University of North Carolina in dramatic, buzzer-beater fashion. And while the link between success in a university’s sports programs and its student applications is well-chronicled across a broad range of colleges, the impact is felt especially strongly when small private schools like Villanova (ranked #75 on our Best Money Colleges list) achieve exposure and fan-favorite status on the national stage.

As one extensive 2009 analysis summed up, “private schools see increases in application rates after sports success that are two to four times higher than public schools.” With more applications, colleges can be more selective with acceptances. Achievements in the sporting arena, then, tend to result in higher “quality” students and an overall better reputation for the college in the future, the study explained: “Schools appear to exploit these increases in applications by improving both the number and the quality of incoming students.”


The link: http://time.com/money/4282412/villanova-ncaa-championship-student-applications/
Athletic success will boost a school's academic profile and flow of donations which benefits all.

 

[tagsfan]

Well, to be perfectly honest, I don't give a damn what WF does as far as athletics goes. I've lost all interest in it. Haven't been to any games in several years and don't have any plans to go in the coming years.....especially basketball where, hopefully, I have attended my last game. However, if you are asking me what I think would be best for WF, my answer is that I think they should leave the ACC and try to form some kind of conference with teams such as Davidson, Furman, William & Mary & Richmond, etc. In other words, get out of the rat race. Stop trying to raise & spend the ever-increasing amount of money needed to keep up in the insane world of semi-pro college athletics. The games could be just as enjoyable for the students, but the world wouldn't rise or fall with every win or loss. Things more important than that should be the focus of a college education.

So why are you on this site? I'm confused.

 

[TheReff]

Just as Kent & Pilch said and I believe I said earlier--we experienced the same things for us after the 95 & 96 ACC basketball titles and the 2006 ACC football title with Orange Bowl exposure. Not many get to see little old LOWF on the national stage and know our name or where we are quite as much as when we get some nice national TV exposure due to our athletics. Whether the academicians like it or not, we all need to work together so we can help each other. Just like the way our top rated Masters of Accountancy program is lifting our business school way up, our athletics can help lift the entire school name if used properly.

 

[awaken]

So why are you on this site? I'm confused.

Exactly. Pure collegiate leagues he pines for exist - Patriot and Ivy. Heck, he just said he wants Wake to re-invent (or really, join) the Patriot League as several of the teams he listed as proper peers for us are already in that league. BKF should not be on any P5 message board where the whore institutions reside. He should adopt a Patriot League team (Army and Navy are there, and I'm pretty sure he served in one of them), and root for them. Seems like he got his DI collegiate sports experience in during his youth, and wants to deny it to others in his old age.

Maybe if sports didn't matter as much to the American public, then this athletic arms race would deflate; but until then, go to the place that matches your ideals. It exists.

 

[nomadic]

Kent hit the nail on the head:

On Monday night, the school’s men’s basketball team won the NCAA championship over the University of North Carolina in dramatic, buzzer-beater fashion. And while the link between success in a university’s sports programs and its student applications is well-chronicled across a broad range of colleges, the impact is felt especially strongly when small private schools like Villanova (ranked #75 on our Best Money Colleges list) achieve exposure and fan-favorite status on the national stage.

As one extensive 2009 analysis summed up, “private schools see increases in application rates after sports success that are two to four times higher than public schools.” With more applications, colleges can be more selective with acceptances. Achievements in the sporting arena, then, tend to result in higher “quality” students and an overall better reputation for the college in the future, the study explained: “Schools appear to exploit these increases in applications by improving both the number and the quality of incoming students.”


The link: http://time.com/money/4282412/villanova-ncaa-championship-student-applications/
Athletic success will boost a school's academic profile and flow of donations which benefits all.

Good read on what basketball success did for Gonzaga.

http://www.matr.net/article-10265.html