NBA Off-season thread: Duncan and Garnett retire

[tintinisahottie]

He's averaged 20 a game for his whole career, not like this is an aberration due to being behind the great Jonas Valanciunas. And Clifford's a pretty good coach who is defense first too

 

[Strickland33]

He's averaged 20 a game for his whole career, not like this is an aberration due to being behind the great Jonas Valanciunas. And Clifford's a pretty good coach who is defense first too

Jonas Valanciunas just about averaged a double-double in 23 minutes per game. Toronto's center position gradually became a time share because they have two really talented big men fighting for minutes.

Also, Bismack averaged 7.2 points, 12.2 rebounds, and 2.0 blocks per game in 29.8 minutes per game during his 22 games as starting center. Pay this man.

 

[tintinisahottie]

I like the Biz. I hope he gets paid big time. I've watched quite a lot of basketball with him in it and I'll be surprised if he ever averages above that 20mpg range for a good team. certainly wish him all the best though

 

[tau06]

They should be able to get Livingston and Barnes for $90M. Barnes is a mediocre defender and even getting open shots he wasn't that good on offense.

Coangelo should be fired if he pays Barnes anything within 25% of $90M.

If Coangelosigns Barnes to the max and over pays Waiters like is being reported the 76ers will look like they have the past 3 years but actually be trying to win. Smh

 

[deaconson]

Duncan exercised player option but still unsure of coming back.

stein reporting diaw's option will be picked up and interest in conley "overstated."

guess they are going all in on durant (unlikely) and more likely bringing back the same team with minor (euro) tweaks. looks like another nice regular season with not enough in the play offs.

 

[faxmachineanthem]

stein reporting diaw's option will be picked up and interest in conley "overstated."

guess they are going all in on durant (unlikely) and more likely bringing back the same team with minor (euro) tweaks. looks like another nice regular season with not enough in the play offs.

Maybe, but that's how it's always been for the Spurs. I don't think they've ever been the preseason favorites in the years where they've won the championship. But if you're one of the top 3-4 contenders every year for like 20 years straight, you're going to win some.

 

[RJKarl]

It does make a little sense. He's 24. They can't sign 28 year old guys for the max and have them be on the same timeline as all their rooks. Secondly SF is the hardest position to fill in the league. There aren't 10 decent SF's, and if you have to overpay for a position, it's that and SG. (Or center, but they're covered there).

Being 24 and sucking is a disadvantage to GMs. It doesn't matter how old you are if you aren't that good. You don't overpay a guy who isn't good. You overpay a guy who is good.

 

[RJKarl]

Why do you think that Biyombo will be grossly over-payed?

Dude is one of the most productive defensive players in the league, averaging 8.3 rebounds and 1.6 blocks in 22.2 minutes per game; 9.4 rebounds and 1.4 blocks in 25.3 minutes per game in the playoffs. That's 14.9 rebounds and 2.8 blocks per 40 minutes pace adjusted, which is productivity on the level of DeAndre Jordan ($21.16 mil), Rudy Gobert (rookie contract), Pau Gasol ($7.77 mil) and Andrew Bogut ($11.03 mil).

Biyombo made $2.88 mil this year. Dude deserves to get paid.

He deserves to get paid, but not $15-20M year. He shold get $8-12M/year. He hasn't proven anything.

Here are two problems with blind projections. First, it's one thing to average big numbers against second stringers and quite another to do so against starters. Also for a physical player, is much less likely to play 40 mpg.

Further using 40 mpg is absurd. No one, not a single player, played 40 mpg. In fact on TWO played as many as 37 mpg.

You can't possibly think Biyambo can sniff Jordan's jock. He had one great series versus many years of top defending and rebounding. That's absurd.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

I like the Biz. I hope he gets paid big time. I've watched quite a lot of basketball with him in it and I'll be surprised if he ever averages above that 20mpg range for a good team. certainly wish him all the best though

He has played a lot of NBA basketball and improved tremendously, and is still only (officially) 23 years old. If he was still in college and playing this way can you imagine the numbers he would have put up? He would have easily been the top pick in the draft. I would have no problem with a GM throwing a shit-ton of money at him, I think he is one of the few on the market who will be worth it moving forward.

ETA: plus, he plays his ass off in every game, which is a skill itself that not everyone has and which rarely goes away in guys who do it to his degree.

 

[RJKarl]

You have no idea what he would have been like in college. It's one thing if he played for Izzo. What if he came to Wake five years ago? How do you think he would been then?

 

[PhDeac]

stein reporting diaw's option will be picked up and interest in conley "overstated."

guess they are going all in on durant (unlikely) and more likely bringing back the same team with minor (euro) tweaks. looks like another nice regular season with not enough in the play offs.

Well there's two more Spurs news items that flesh all of this out.

Pau Gasol is the real top target in free agency.
The Spurs have signed two Euro stashes in Davis Bertrans and Livio Jean-Charles. Bertrans was the other pick in the Kawhi-Hill trade. Livio was the 2013 1st round pick.

Bertrans, Livio, and Murray will float between the end of the bench and the D-League and replace Bonner, Martin, and Miller with youth. If they get Gasol, Duncan will go to the bench for his last season. He and Manu will be able to help mentor the young players.

Any hope for the season will rest on the backcourt. Green has to return to form and Parker/Mills need to be consistent and reliable as 3rd and 4th options. Anderson and Simmons will be called on to do more this season and won't be on the roster in 2017-18 if they don't.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

You have no idea what he would have been like in college. It's one thing if he played for Izzo. What if he came to Wake five years ago? How do you think he would been then?

I mean take the Biyombo from the 2016 playoffs and stick him on any team in the 2016 NCAA tourney and see what sort of numbers he puts up. And then hold the draft.

 

[RChildress107]

Still think it's a mistake not to go hard after Conley. Spurs need an upgrade at point guard to win it all. 2013 Tony Parker isn't walking through that door.

 

[RJKarl]

I mean take the Biyombo from the 2016 playoffs and stick him on any team in the 2016 NCAA tourney and see what sort of numbers he puts up. And then hold the draft.

That's completely ridiculous. You want him to be coached and played in the NBA for five years. have his best two weeks of his life, then put him back into college.

What if Willie Green could play every game like the night he scored 53? It's equally as reasonable.

 

[RJKarl]

Still think it's a mistake not to go hard after Conley. Spurs need an upgrade at point guard to win it all. 2013 Tony Parker isn't walking through that door.

I agree about Conley.

They could probably do Conley, a 1-2 deal with Pau and a mid-level exception SG.

Or just get KD and play Kawhi at SG.

 

[PhDeac]

Still think it's a mistake not to go hard after Conley. Spurs need an upgrade at point guard to win it all. 2013 Tony Parker isn't walking through that door.

I agree.

 

[JuiceCrewAllStar]

If Duncan doesn't come back, slotting Pau at that spot makes a lot of sense.

 

[RJKarl]

Even if Tim does come back, signing Pau for a year or two makes sense. Does San Antonio have enough great eateries, theater and opera for Pau?

What might be cool would be get Durant and use the mid-level exception for Pau.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

...

Further using 40 mpg is absurd. No one, not a single player, played 40 mpg. In fact on TWO played as many as 37 mpg. ..

RJ vs advanced stats, round 127

The per 40 metric doesnt have anything to do with players averaging 40 mpg. It's just a productivity stat that eliminates a variable that players aren't in control of.

 

[RJKarl]

RJ vs advanced stats, round 127

The per 40 metric doesnt have anything to do with players averaging 40 mpg. It's just a productivity stat that eliminates a variable that players aren't in control of.

But it doesn't include changing playing against starters versus subs or tired starters. If you effectively don't include this, the most important variable isn't included.

It also doesn't include if a player would tire more or get injured more over course of the season by player extended minutes.

Projecting without those and other factors make it a parlor game not a stat.

I'ts not about ALL advanced stats. It's about some.

It's also about how many "advanced" stats are "old" stats. People have kept shot charts for fifty years. People have tried to "projected stats" for at 30-40 years. Coaches have kept off/def and the geography of rebounding for decades.