myDeaconmyhand
First man to get a team of horses up Bear Mountain
Sincerely held religious beliefs aren't held to any such standard.
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I keep seeing this repeated on the boards and it's just not true. I realize that you all have good intentions, but there is no transgendered looks test. Do you think gender is decided by how masculine or feminine you decide to dress every day? Both trans men and women wear jeans and t-shirts and flip flops and whatever normal asexual shit we cisgenders do. Expecting transgendered people to be in full makeup and runway drag attire every single day is unrealistic and unfair.
Do you think gender is decided by how masculine or feminine you decide to dress every day
This completely misses the point. To my knowledge, nobody has suggested that the problem is that transgenders are going to molest girls in the girls' bathrooms. At least I know that I haven't. And I've clearly stated that in at least 5 or 6 posts on the subject.
Ok. Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. I realize that it's a weird reason to get on a soapbox.The problem is we're trying to explain gender fluidity to a bunch of conservative old men and sheltered innocents that can only understand the world in binaries. Of course there is no test for transgender looks. But in order to help them understand, making more straightforward for the purpose of explanation the association between gender identity and how one presents makes things simpler for demonstrating a relatively simple concept that even after dozens and dozens of pages rjkarl and bkf both confused only a couple of posts ago. I think we've finally moved past needing to differentiate sex and gender. Just trying to reach some kind of stasis here.
I think it's become clear that this isn't the thread for the kind of nuance you're insisting on here. Most posters are just trying to get the holdouts to see trans people as humans. And distinguish people with gender identity issues from hypothetical child molesters and perverts that would in this conservative fantasy put on a dress and a wig and pretend to be trans.
And the fact that you propose implementing a system of selective discrimination.
And the fact that you propose implementing a system of selective discrimination.
Right. The only people that not only suggested it, but claim it will definitely happen are the wingnuts who wrote the bill, passed it, and the Governor of North Carolina. In addition that was followed by a slew of uneducated rubes who echoed this garbage. You know. Trump voters.
I've yet to see anyone suggest transgenders aren't human. Maybe I missed it. Seems quite dramatic from phan
For the "the test is that there is no test" crowd, does this apply to showers as well? You are okay with biological males showering in an open bay with women?
That wasn't the question
This is a rhetorical strategy called hyperbole. But seriously, as several people have pointed out on here, the language we use to talk about transgender people is not dissimilar from the way we talked about black people during the civil rights movement or gay people just a decade ago. I don't think these people are bad human beings necessarily, but people fear what they don't know and what they don't understand. We dehumanize trans people when we compare them to monsters and abusers. Re-read some of the posts on this thread, especially from posters like 2&2, and tell me that they are treating trans people as human beings with legitimate feelings and anxieties and desires. Everything is not a political game.
Women don't usually shower in open bays. And come on, even if that were the case, you really think a pre-op trans female is going to shower in an open bay? These people are outcasts; they aren't trying to draw attention to themselves.
People should be dramatically more concerned about their sons and daughters going on outings with the clergy than bathrooms with transgenders. Tens of thousands of children have been abused by clergy. How many can you verify in bathrooms by transgender people?
Nice edit.
Yes, in this hypothetical women's open-bay shower room (which you conveniently imagine to look just like men's showers which in this country they generally do not) I am ok with biological males *who have transitioned either surgically or culturally* changing clothes and showering.
If that's not ok, don't use open-bay showers. Lots and lots of people don't.
What does it mean to transition culturally? Sounds a lot like you are stereotyping women with that statement.
Could you give me an example where someone on this thread has done this?
What is the problem with you people who continue to talk about transgenders abusing people. As I've posted about 10 times or more....and others have posted even more than that....the problem here isn't the fear of transgenders abusing people. Why is that so hard for people supporting this change to allow transgenders their choice of bathrooms to understand?
What does it mean to transition culturally? Sounds a lot like you are stereotyping women with that statement.
It's just a bunch of meaningless liberal bullshit that they can spin to mean anything they want it to mean. The entire foundation of liberal philosophy is that they begin with the assumption that they are morally & intellectually superior to anyone who disagrees with them or questions one of their goofball statements like this one.
(And that liberal philosophy attitude dove tails nicely with the already haughty attitudes of many WF grads.)