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HB2 Strikes Again

scooter84 said:
Maybe the net result of all this is that we go to single stall bathrooms and locker rooms with more private, closed-off spaces for changing.... Then perhaps it won't be as big a deal. I just know that the locker rooms I have used in the past, and use currently, are mostly open spaces with naked dudes walking around, toweling off, changing clothes, etc. It doesn't seem like the ideal place for gender-mixing...
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So what difference would it make to you if all the naked dudes were walking around and toweling off and a trans man was changing quietly in the corner or in a stall? You probably wouldn't even notice. The point is that the trans man (who probably tries as hard as he possibly can to look like a dude) doesn't feel comfortable looking and feeling like that and changing with women.

Now on the women's side trans men obviously have a more difficult time blending in, but they probably want to use the women's room to escape the violence of the men's room. They dress like women and try as hard as they can to look like women and I'd bet they still use the stall to stop from making others uncomfortable.

As to your hypothetical peeping Tom deviant who you believe would be protected by such a law: why can't we have a kind of heartfelt belief standard or whatever standard there is for religious beliefs?

If y'all actually knew any trans people your opinion would be very, very different. Same thing went for black people and then gay people too. Once you knew some you realized they were humans too.
 
Pretty sure if I just sat in the men's changing room ogling all the schlongs I could that I'd be asked pretty quickly to GTFO of there (as I should be). Gay, straight (maybe just curious?--everybody seems to adore or fear the penis, and those that fear it probs secretly adore it), or trans.

Now, if you happen to catch a quick unintentional glimpse of some body part that you think is pretty cool, just keep your enjoyment to yourself and everything should be OK. lol

Again, the real problem, IMO, is the resistance to accept (legitimize) trans people. Including them in anti-discrimination law is a legitimization too far for many. That's the real barrier, IMO.
 
Gotta do the package check in the locker room just to make sure everyone's a dude.
 
scooter84 said:
I recognize the difficulty for those people and don't really know what I would "force them to do" - it is a difficult situation. I am mostly just trying to identify the issues on the other side, which many people simply fail to see at all. If either side refuses to see the other side's point of view, there is no understanding and compromise and resolution becomes impossible. And that goes for both sides, of course.
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It's much, much, much, much more likely that you or your 12 yo son will be ogled and assaulted by a pervert in a unisex men's locker room, or even in your church than your red herring of a situation. We know this from centuries of young boys and girls being attacked, but you don't want laws to protect people and keep them safe until now.
 
RJKarl said:
READ the law. You can't tell me it's not bigoted against the LGBTQ community. It even bars lawsuits.

You can't tell me it doesn't persecute low paid employees and all employees in its restrictions on pay and lawsuits.
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I haven't even been talking about HB2 specifically, just trying to voice some of the concerns held by those on the so-called conservative side of the bathroom portion. I have already said that I was not in favor of HB2 and that I would be in favor of adding gender identity and sexual preference to the non-discrimination laws. Pay attention.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
What law currently prevents old men from standing around in the Y and staring at young boys?
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No law and if you read all my posts you would have seen where I recognized this fact. If they don't go beyond ogling I don't know how you do much about it.
 
scooter84 said:
No law and if you read all my posts you would have seen where I recognized this fact. If they don't go beyond ogling I don't know how you do much about it.
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How about all the young boys who have been attacked in showers across the country the Sanduskys of the world?

There's something else. Don't you think women would band together to force peeping Toms out of the ladies' locker room?
 
Deacsfan27 said:
THERE ARE ALREADY LAWS THAT DEAL WITH PEOPLE WHO HARASS AND ASSAULT PEOPLE.

Is there research somewhere that indicates folks who are transgender harass and assault people at a higher rate than cis-gender folks?
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That's actually a good point. I'm sure that we've all been at sporting events where a woman uses the mens room bc of a shorter line. Has anyone ever thought "we need a law so we can arrest her?"
 
scooter84 said:
OK, maybe you aren't being purposely dense, maybe you are really dense. If the law says a man can be in the ladies locker room and the man is sitting there watching the women change but not attacking anyone, by what right can he be asked to leave? Which law will "address that"?
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There can be a law that says you can't oogle people in the locker room?
 
scooter84 said:
No law and if you read all my posts you would have seen where I recognized this fact. If they don't go beyond ogling I don't know how you do much about it.
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Actually pretty sure this is not true? Looking at underage people for sexual gratification is definitely illegal. Could easily pass a law (maybe there already is one) that looking at naked people for sexual gratification without their consent is illegal.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
No. Trans people would like to use the bathroom without fear of harassment or having the cops called on them. While many private establishments accomodate them peacefully, its surely very frustrating and demeaning having to play Russian roulette worrying about which bar restaurant club store is going to call the cops on you for taking a piss. Maybe You havent noticed, but there are no "trans people not welcome" signs posted at businesses, its something that people have to find out the hard way.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
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Please point to the number of such calls to CMPD utilized in support of the "need" for the CLT ordinance. I can save you a lot of time and tell you how many were discussed if somehow you can't seem to find the number for some reason.
 
wakephan09 said:
So what difference would it make to you if all the naked dudes were walking around and toweling off and a trans man was changing quietly in the corner or in a stall? You probably wouldn't even notice. The point is that the trans man (who probably tries as hard as he possibly can to look like a dude) doesn't feel comfortable looking and feeling like that and changing with women.

Now on the women's side trans men obviously have a more difficult time blending in, but they probably want to use the women's room to escape the violence of the men's room. They dress like women and try as hard as they can to look like women and I'd bet they still use the stall to stop from making others uncomfortable.

As to your hypothetical peeping Tom deviant who you believe would be protected by such a law: why can't we have a kind of heartfelt belief standard or whatever standard there is for religious beliefs?

If y'all actually knew any trans people your opinion would be very, very different. Same thing went for black people and then gay people too. Once you knew some you realized they were humans too.
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Again, what violence? Again, please point to the CMPD assault stats utilized in support of the "need" for the CLT Ordinance. And again, I can give you the number if you can't find it. I'll give you a hint though, it rhymes with "queero".

And I love how anyone who thinks a dude posing as a woman going into the woman's room to oogle girls is ridiculous and unrealistic, but the concept of every men's room as an unrestrained, free for all, Roadhouse brawl where any trans person is likely to be beaten to an inch of their life is accepted as fact.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Again, what violence? Again, please point to the CMPD assault stats utilized in support of the "need" for the CLT Ordinance. And again, I can give you the number if you can't find it. I'll give you a hint though, it rhymes with "queero".

And I love how anyone who thinks a dude posing as a woman going into the woman's room to oogle girls is ridiculous and unrealistic, but the concept of every men's room as an unrestrained, free for all, Roadhouse brawl where any trans person is likely to be beaten to an inch of their life is accepted as fact.
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Well HB2 made it so men who dress like women actually had to go into men's rooms.

Look, it's clear we disagree.

You don't think there was a need to codify what the Charlotte board did. You also seem to think that the retaliation from the state was justified (despite the state losing hundreds of millions of dollars as a result). Others clearly disagree with that.

It is what it is. This thread has gone on and on with the same people saying the same thing for months. Probably just time to let it be.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Well HB2 made it so men who dress like women actually had to go into men's rooms.

Look, it's clear we disagree.

You don't think there was a need to codify what the Charlotte board did. You also seem to think that the retaliation from the state was justified (despite the state losing hundreds of millions of dollars as a result). Others clearly disagree with that.

It is what it is. This thread has gone on and on with the same people saying the same thing for months. Probably just time to let it be.
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No, I don't think the retaliation from the state (HB2 itself) was justified. I've said repeatedly that HB2 is just as awful as the CLT ordinance. I do think that some form of reaction from the state was necessary, be it pro-ordinance expansion or anti-ordinance limitation, because the CLT Council clearly exceeded their statutory authority. So some response was needed.

My point is that the bulk of the blame for this shitshow should be with the CLT council and their idiotic ordinance that addressed a problem that didn't exist. Their illegal, discriminatory, look at me actions were the cause of this mess more than anything. And the SJW crowd that tries to manufacture a problem after the fact in an attempt to justify the stupidity of the ordinance is just as bad.
 
Frankly Notre Dame students freaking out over Pence is ridiculous. A catholic university has a student body attending a catholic university protesting a man who is pro life anti abortion believes in heterosexual marriage. I know he electrocutes gays and blah blah. Sorry but the teaching of the catholic university is clear on in its mission statement. If you are afraid of Pence then what the hell are you doing at Notre Dame? Insane! We have snookie at Rutgers and condi gracefully bows out not to ruin their day because of war crimes. Snookie is screwing and drinking and screwing and living with "da situation and a bunch of steroid popping brainless losers who can't write their own names let alone put together a sentence?". We have Barbara Bush too uneducated for the women of Wellesley. We have Hirsi who speaks of genital mutilation and the abuse of women and speaks of the idiology of radical Islam calling for the annihilation of Jews tossed out of Brandeis? I listened to Michelle Obamas (who in respect) speech as Tuskegee university the same year condi spoke at (?) someone tell me where. These two African American women made me believe they grew up on two different planets. I say do away with the commencement speaker. Too much stress and triggering for these students who have to make their way through the real world some day. God help them. Frankly, we've focused so much on our color, our gender, our disabilities, our victimization that identifies WHO WE ARE. THATS IT? That's what it's all about? We are segregating all over again in the name of diversity. We want dorms for people of color, which used to be black, then African American, Latino, brown, so we create people of color. When did that happen? Slowly people of color. What freakin color? That's another crock. Let me hit the tanning spa! Occupy Wall Street? Did you hear a unified message? Nooooooo. Everyone who had a gripe, all victims of something were there to protest. The women's march is NOT a woman's march anymore. We have included trans, LGBTQA, islamophobia, latino/Mexican illegal immigrant issues. I heard an educated man speak and he said 51% of the population has a gripe against the rest of the population. We have identified ourselves with our tribal roots and not our character. Our politicians who have pandered to this mess have made lucrative careers off of this. Sure there's discrimination and many issues that need to be talked about. But segregation is not the answer. Not good. The judge in New York who drown. First black Muslim woman judge found dead in Hudson River. Say what? She's dead and she's a good well respected judge. What the hell? I don't even know her name. I don't give a damn if she's black muslim or a woman. She held an honorable position and she died under what looks like suspicious circumstances. RIP accomplished honorable judge. I worry about our kids or you kids living in this mixed up, victim, overly PC culture which is destroying us.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Dude, you drunk? Hacked? Seen the light?
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I am pro life. I believe the term used was electrocuting gays (hysteria) not killing anyone. I assume it was shock therapy. Mortal sin to believe sexual preference (here we go beat me) or lifestyle may be a choice. I will stop here because I can see this will lead the typical response of racist, bigot, uniformed, hater, alt right, religious right wing nazi and so on. How about you? Believe in the death penalty? Just curious you don't have to answer.
 
I believe the natural order of man and woman to be gods creation. Laugh roll your eyes. Once removed from the natural process of procreation and we are born with hormones to grow through puberty and sexual stimulation during stages of puberty that are not fully understood as a 12 year old for example. If a 12 year old male is molested he will be confused but stimulated. If he continues to be molested and has sexual relations till he's 21 and thinks he is loved by his abuser should we try to change his mind? Why should he feel ashamed if sex two men is totally fine. I don't believe there is any DNA that proves a person is born homosexual or bisexual. If we remove the man and woman, once removed what does it matter how we feel about our relationship with others? If we are truly bisexual do we choose either sex eventually or do we need to have both sexes? If we are questioning our sexuality at 20 years old what makes it so confusing? Are there underlying issues that happened during their younger years? If someone is into recreational deviant sex and decides they identify with beastiality then what makes them any different from deviating from man and woman? Once removed what does any other relationship which is love and sex mean? On the other hand abortion. We started after roe v Wade with 12 weeks. Why 12 weeks? The baby which was called a fetus wasn't viable outside of the womb. So the determination is made. Here we are years later using methods for partial birth abortion. Partial birth? So 12 weeks, 15, 20, it's not an issue anymore. The original aborting a life depending on the woman to feed and nourish this life naturally was destroyed. Once we said that life can be taken it really doesn't matter when. Am I making sense? Partial birth babies are born and taken to a room and left to die. I know I'm mixing apples and oranges but the natural order of god given life. Once removed I don't care if you love a goat. I think there is a chance there is confusion but it's too late now with transsexuals and body mutilation. I don't care if Caitlyn finally removed her manhood. Does she have ovaries? Uterus? Can she menstruate? Bear children? She's pumped up with hormones and surgery to the fullest extent. She thinks or believes she should have been a woman? Where in her body? In her mind? Call me what you want but doesn't anyone ever think it through rather than everyone hates all these people? Something's not right. Instead of shunning gays back in the 60s and 70s they should have been embraced and loved. But maybe loved with compassion and help. Just my thoughts that nobody here will ever to hear. I should delete this but I won't. Don't comment on no paragraphs and my grammar. I'm just flowing. It's a psychological term. The docs around here know what it means.
 
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