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2015-2016 MLB Stove: Talk To Your Congressman About Stopping DH Expansion

rjequalsmj said:
Today's boston globe sports section
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17% body fat, according to Panda and John Henry.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...nt-body-fat/a59fxwRvJ1T9NujrBYTa4I/story.html

I guess that means he weighs 1,000 pounds.
 
avalon said:
So the Orioles thought they had a deal with a guy who tried to renegotiate then backed out? That must suck for them.
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It's probably time they were the ones who got burned after some of their antics on agreed to deals.
 
CheesePritchard said:
It's probably time they were the ones who got burned after some of their antics on agreed to deals.
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Oh you mean all those guys that were clearly screwed over by physicals when they were healthy? Zero problem with Gallardo, the money is the same just less guaranteed after some shoulder problems. Didn't do that with Ubaldo on similar innings so something must have been up
 
JDawg said:
Oh you mean all those guys that were clearly screwed over by physicals when they were healthy? Zero problem with Gallardo, the money is the same just less guaranteed after some shoulder problems. Didn't do that with Ubaldo on similar innings so something must have been up
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The fact is the Orioles have the very real rep of negotiating a deal pending a physical, taking the physical to a level that other teams don't, and then when/if any potential medical issue is found, trying to negotiate more favorable terms. Maybe it's a sound business practice that other teams should follow and don't, but the O's front office is known as being very hard to deal with. As a result, I don't think many if any and baseball felt bad for the Orioles when/if Fowler sought to add an opt-out clause to the deal that had been negotiated, but before it was signed. What goes around comes around. If the Orioles deal was that great, Fowler wouldn't have signed with Cubs.
 
Go find me a deal that was negotiated after the physical besides Gallardo. That player was injured and sucked with their next team (Grant Balfour! Tyler Colvin!), if they are even still in baseball at this point.

Also, opt outs are dumb.
 
JDawg said:
Go find me a deal that was negotiated after the physical besides Gallardo. That player was injured and sucked with their next team (Grant Balfour! Tyler Colvin!), if they are even still in baseball at this point.

Also, opt outs are dumb.
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Really surprised you are pushing this point. This is how Angelos operates, and why he is hated. Justifiably; the man is a total prick, and his son Orioles "Executive VP" John Angelos is a also a douche, but just far dumber and lazier than dead old Dad. You want a list of deals nixed or changed by this tactic, here we go:

Gallardo, who turns 30 on Feb. 27, has averaged 191 innings the past seven seasons. He never has been on the disabled list with an arm injury. Durability, for heaven’s sake, is one of his assets. But from Xavier Hernandez to Aaron Sele, Jeromy Burnitz to Grant Balfour, the Orioles under owner Peter Angelos have swung this hammer before.




Former Orioles GM Jim Duquette, speaking Wednesday on MLB Network Radio, recounted some of his own deals that went awry when Angelos raised concerns about a player’s physical condition — Mike Lowell, Paul Konerko, Frank Thomas, ahem, ahem, ahem.




“That’s how Peter plays general manager,” another former Orioles GM, Frank Wren, told The New York Times in 2006 when he was Braves GM (Wren now is the Red Sox’s senior vice president of baseball operations). “He uses medical reasons to kill or change a deal if he doesn’t like it.”


Enough names for you? It's not like this is some off the wall theory (FWIW, the Orioles are so irrelevant that no one is going to spend the time make up stories about them) -- two former Oriole GMs confirmed it on the record; can't get much better than that. Here is a link to the full Ken Rosenthal article (who by the way used to cover the Orioles for the Baltimore Sun and has won Maryland Sportswriter of the year in the past; so, go ahead and question the assessment of Ken Rosenthal on the Orioles if you insist on wasting further time on this): http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/baltimore-orioles-yovani-gallardo-deal-physical-injury-peter-angelos-ken-rosenthal-022416
 
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Oh, THAT is why he's hated? Rosenthal HATES Angelos and the Orioles BTW and doesn't hesitate to be unbiased towards them. He has some overall points, but doesn't begin to address the counter points - like why every single player he named ended up having issues and not performing. Also, his sources are former employees that were fired and no longer in baseball. Besides, that was published before they made a deal with Gallardo - which of course they did, making most of those points moot. He certainly seems happy with his new teammates.

BTW the Orioles are the winningest team in the AL East in the past four years. Not the Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays, or Rays. Hardly irrelevant.
 
The Gallardo deal validates the point, as the Orioles used the "after the deal was negotiated" physical to shorten the deal and reduce the money knowing (from the Rosenthal article: "(Angelos) uses medical reasons to kill or change a deal if he doesn’t like it") that Spring Training had started and Gallardo was out of options. OK, so everyone from Ken Rosenthal to Jim Duquette to Frank Wren to Mike Cameron are all out to make up stories about the Orioles. Right...

Also, two playoff appearances, one ALCS and no W-S appearances in 17 years = irrelevant. Camden Yards is a great place to watch a game. Be happy with that.
 
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Just saw that Casey Close is the agent involved in this Dexter Fowler dust up. Not surprised.
 
Cubs are now bringing in Shane Victorino too. Apparently they had a deal almost in place before they signed Fowler, and they are honoring it by bringing him in on a minor league deal. We will take all the switch hitting OFs.

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CheesePritchard said:
The reporter hates us defense? Stop.
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Pilchard said:
The Gallardo deal validates the point, as the Orioles used the "after the deal was negotiated" physical to shorten the deal and reduce the money knowing (from the Rosenthal article: "(Angelos) uses medical reasons to kill or change a deal if he doesn’t like it") that Spring Training had started and Gallardo was out of options. OK, so everyone from Ken Rosenthal to Jim Duquette to Frank Wren to Mike Cameron are all out to make up stories about the Orioles. Right...

Also, two playoff appearances, one ALCS and no W-S appearances in 17 years = irrelevant. Camden Yards is a great place to watch a game. Be happy with that.
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Rosenthal is a well known Orioles hater. And Pilchard's post is simply crap.

Fowler agreed to a deal, then changed it. Casey Close is an idiot.
 
JDawg said:
Rosenthal HATES Angelos and the Orioles BTW and doesn't hesitate to be unbiased towards them.
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If he doesn't hesitate to be unbiased, must be because he's a journalist with ethics.

Speaking of which -- do you think the ex-GMs' quotes were falsified?
 
bernbp5 said:
Rosenthal is a well known Orioles hater. And Pilchard's post is simply crap.

Fowler agreed to a deal, then changed it. Casey Close is an idiot.
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Interesting spin since the O's GM acknowledged that the O's and Fowler never agreed to a deal:

Orioles executive vice president Dan Duquette said that even though the club never had an agreement with Fowler in place, he still believed the team was in play for Fowler’s services until Thursday morning.

Duquette said Thursday that Fowler’s insistence on including an opt-out clause in the agreement was the deal breaker.

“We made a very competitive offer,” Duquette said. “There was not an agreement to terms because they kept insisting on an opt-out. I don't see, club ownership doesn’t see the value in that type of arrangement to the Orioles. If we are going to guarantee a contract, it should be a contract.”


Then again, maybe Eduardo Encina (the Baltimore Sun reporter that wrote the attached article hates the Orioles too): http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-duquette-optout-clause-was-dealbreaker-with-dexter-fowler-20160225-story.html
 
Of course the GM is not going to throw an agent under the bus
 
Fowler and his agent had two days to refute reports that an agreement was reached pending physical. Darren O'Day and his agent did that exact thing earlier this offseason in basically the exact same situation. Taking it all in, there was an agreement then they decided to add the opt-in/called Theo, then backed out and made a spectacle out of it. Everyone is in damage control, but Close going nutso and the MLBPA not getting involved tells me a lot.
 
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