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2023-24 Wake Forest Basketball Season - 21-14 (11-9) - KP#29 / NET#43

Deacsfan27 said:
and you would be 100% wrong.

If it's listed in the NCAA history books as an appearance, then it's making the tournament. You either do or you don't, and the NCAA says that the First Four is making it.

It's like folks who say a registered Democrat isn't a "real" Democrat. The only thing that makes you a Democrat is whether or not you're registered as one.

Personally I don't view in my mind that the First Four is the "real" tournament, but the NCAA says it is, so it is. We even get a banner and everything.
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Yeah I don't care what they say in this instance. It's just all for show for them to have more teams etc. If you don't play on Thursday/Friday you aint in it.

And partly why I think its BS that the 16 seeds have to play in. They should be fully in with a conference tourney win, not have to go to Dayton. If you want 8 play in teams, make it the last 8 at larges.
 
tigerswood said:
Totally depends on the ACC opponents, per Torvik, which may be overvaluing conf tourneys. For example, Win over Clemson, Pitt, or Cuse (double bye scenario) + Loss to UNC or Duke puts us anywhere from 9 seed (several) to last 4 byes.
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Yeah, if we beat GT and Clemson, we want to play UNC or Duke ASAP in the ACC tournament. A win in that game would obviously seal a bid, but a loss also should keep us on the right side of the bubble.

The ACCT is pretty likely to be all risk and little reward for Wake, because unless it's a game against UNC/Duke/UVA or Clemson it can really only hurt Wake.
 
deacfan123 said:
And partly why I think its BS that the 16 seeds have to play in. They should be fully in with a conference tourney win, not have to go to Dayton. If you want 8 play in teams, make it the last 8 at larges.
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While I understand this perspective, at the end of the day most of the bottom 12 teams in the tournament lose quickly in uncompetitive games. Nobody wants to see even more blowouts on Thursday/Friday, even if those teams really did "earn" it by winning their conference.
 
deacfan123 said:
Yeah I don't care what they say in this instance. It's just all for show for them to have more teams etc. If you don't play on Thursday/Friday you aint in it.

And partly why I think its BS that the 16 seeds have to play in. They should be fully in with a conference tourney win, not have to go to Dayton. If you want 8 play in teams, make it the last 8 at larges.
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except:

A quick summary of the NCAAā€™s tournament distributions: A team earns one ā€œunitā€ for every game it plays before the championship, including the first four games held in Dayton. There are therefore 132 units awarded each tournament, and those units stretch over six years, generating payments to each schoolā€™s conference in annual chunks.
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so if you get sent to Dayton as a 16 seed and win, your conference gets double the payout.

www.sportico.com

March Madness 2023: Eliminated Early, SEC Nabs Tournament-High $34 Million

March Madness unit payouts will deliver tournament-high $34 million to SEC. The Big 12 ($32 million) is next, followed by the Big East ($30 million).
www.sportico.com www.sportico.com
 
deacfan123 said:
Yeah I don't care what they say in this instance. It's just all for show for them to have more teams etc. If you don't play on Thursday/Friday you aint in it.

And partly why I think its BS that the 16 seeds have to play in. They should be fully in with a conference tourney win, not have to go to Dayton. If you want 8 play in teams, make it the last 8 at larges.
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So when they inevitably expand it to 72 or 80 or 96 teams, are you still not going to be "in the tournament" until you have made it to the field of 64? Because that's probably coming down the road sooner than the traditionalists want it to.
The NCAA now awards a full NCAA unit (for conference payout purposes) for an appearance in the First Four (whereas they didn't use to when it first started for the at-large teams), so that is a pretty good indication of how the NCAA views those First Four participants.
 
Again, I do not care what the NCAA says. It does not feel like you made it, so in my view you did not make it. No clue on expanded tourney, will be a feel thing. Probably will feel more normal since it's not just a few team play in game. But I'm not a fan of expanding it either.
 
I really thought this team turned a corner during the Duke game and learned how to take a punch but keep fighting... this last week has proven that not to be the case.
 
deacfan123 said:
Again, I do not care what the NCAA says. It does not feel like you made it, so in my view you did not make it. No clue on expanded tourney, will be a feel thing. Probably will feel more normal since it's not just a few team play in game. But I'm not a fan of expanding it either.
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You understand how ridiculous it is to ignore what the NCAA says about the tournament they run and to instead depend on your own feelings about it right?

You can make the statement that you will not be satisfied with Dayton compared to getting into the field of 64, but you don't have to try to make the argument that it literally doesn't count as making the tournament.
 
deacon14 said:
While I understand this perspective, at the end of the day most of the bottom 12 teams in the tournament lose quickly in uncompetitive games. Nobody wants to see even more blowouts on Thursday/Friday, even if those teams really did "earn" it by winning their conference.
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Yeah I mean for the most part, but it's becoming more normal to have decent games out of 16 seeds. But I just think it sucks for the kids to get shipped to a play in when they won the conference tourney. I'd much rather watch 4 dayton games with 11-12 seeds, would actually make the first four more entertaining.
 
deacon14 said:
You understand how ridiculous it is to ignore what the NCAA says about the tournament they run and to instead depend on your own feelings about it right?
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Sure I guess we just take what the NCAA says as gospel (LOL). doesn't matter either way, it's just my opinion. (And a lot of others)
 
deacon14 said:
You understand how ridiculous it is to ignore what the NCAA says about the tournament they run and to instead depend on your own feelings about it right?

You can make the statement that you will not be satisfied with Dayton compared to getting into the field of 64, but you don't have to try to make the argument that it literally doesn't count as making the tournament.
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i'm sure there are owg's out there who claim that expanding the tournament to include at-large bids ruined the sport and any ncaa "champion" who didn't earn an autobid shouldn't be recognized.

eta: the ncaa tournament only had 64 teams for sixteen years (1985-2000). we've had the first four for fourteen years now (since 2001).
 
Well yes - they run the tournament and set the rules, so if they count it as an appearance then you LITERALLY made the tournament by definition.

I know you FEEL that way, but you are 100% wrong.
 
deacfan123 said:
Yeah I mean for the most part, but it's becoming more normal to have decent games out of 16 seeds. But I just think it sucks for the kids to get shipped to a play in when they won the conference tourney. I'd much rather watch 4 dayton games with 11-12 seeds, would actually make the first four more entertaining.
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I'd be curious to see what the players on 16 seeds have to say.

I bet a lot of them enjoy getting to play in a competitive NCAAT game as opposed to just getting blown out by a top 4 team in the country and going home.
 
Prob be a 50/50 split based on if they won or not lol. Everyone wants to play on Thurs/Fri.
 
Yeah like I said it's my opinion, not really a big deal. But never will I feel like making it to Dayton and losing got you into the dance. You didn't make it to the real dance, you may have gotten to the parking lot, but you weren't let in.
 
I would think if we do get sent to Dayton, we would be a lot better than the other teams. But we will see how we perform neutral at the ACCT.

Charleston was pre reid so I don't put much stock into it.
 
did you know that prior the tournament expanding to 64 teams in 1985, they played an "opening round" in....dayton, ohio.

in 1983, bob staak coached xavier lost in the play-in game in dayton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_men's_basketball_tournament

i guess someone could decide that they feel they didn't make the ncaa tournament that year -- but i think that would be tough to argue since they won their conference tournament.
 
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