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TownieDeac said:
Isn't it also a pretty classic "principal agent problem" where the person selecting the service doesn't always or even often have the best interest of the purchasing agent at heart?
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It's also not a field that lends itself to a very informed consumer base.
 
I don't understand why people are surprised that ObamaCare premiums are exploding. When you add free or heavily subsidized coverage for 8 or 10 million new people, somebody else somewhere has to pay for it. This is only the tip of the iceberg. From day one Obama has been nothing more than a snake-oil salesman regarding his ObamaCare promises, lying thru his teeth about what was going to happen....and he had to know he was lying when he said it. It served his real purpose, though.....adding a few million more votes to the Democrats' long-term Welfare State strategy.

About the only difference between Obama and Hillary is that you know Hillary is lying right away, but Obama can lie in such a way that he can make people believe that he is being honest with them. It is his special political gift. You have to give him credit for that.
 
bobknightfan said:
I don't understand why people are surprised that ObamaCare premiums are exploding. When you add free or heavily subsidized coverage for 8 or 10 million new people, somebody else somewhere has to pay for it. This is only the tip of the iceberg. From day one Obama has been nothing more than a snake-oil salesman regarding his ObamaCare promises, lying thru his teeth about what was going to happen....and he had to know he was lying when he said it. It served his real purpose, though.....adding a few million more votes to the Democrats' long-term Welfare State strategy.

About the only difference between Obama and Hillary is that you know Hillary is lying right away, but Obama can lie in such a way that he can make people believe that he is being honest with them. It is his special political gift. You have to give him credit for that.
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I actually think Hillary is an enormously gifted liar.
 
bobknightfan said:
I don't understand why people are surprised that ObamaCare premiums are exploding. When you add free or heavily subsidized coverage for 8 or 10 million new people, somebody else somewhere has to pay for it. This is only the tip of the iceberg. From day one Obama has been nothing more than a snake-oil salesman regarding his ObamaCare promises, lying thru his teeth about what was going to happen....and he had to know he was lying when he said it. It served his real purpose, though.....adding a few million more votes to the Democrats' long-term Welfare State strategy.

About the only difference between Obama and Hillary is that you know Hillary is lying right away, but Obama can lie in such a way that he can make people believe that he is being honest with them. It is his special political gift. You have to give him credit for that.
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Decided to come crawling back? Go back in your hole, gollum.
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
Healthcare fails in a free market economy because it's the only commodity that has no true price. Most people would put their life as priceless, so you want to come in an try and get saved or get the drug that will cure you, the price pretty much can be anything I want it to be.
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This is actually not true. The market has responded to this kind of "charge what you want" policy in the US by the booming medical tourism industry. Many patients are getting minor surgeries and even major surgeries abroad due to cost. Companies have been started to facilitate the process and to help patients pick accredited and safe hospital/surgeon options.

Again, the two areas of medicine that have been left to market forces are the only two areas where quality has skyrockedted while prices have plumetted. Lasik surgery and Cosmetic surgery.
 
bobknightfan said:
I don't understand why people are surprised that ObamaCare premiums are exploding. When you add free or heavily subsidized coverage for 8 or 10 million new people, somebody else somewhere has to pay for it. This is only the tip of the iceberg. From day one Obama has been nothing more than a snake-oil salesman regarding his ObamaCare promises, lying thru his teeth about what was going to happen....and he had to know he was lying when he said it. It served his real purpose, though.....adding a few million more votes to the Democrats' long-term Welfare State strategy.

About the only difference between Obama and Hillary is that you know Hillary is lying right away, but Obama can lie in such a way that he can make people believe that he is being honest with them. It is his special political gift. You have to give him credit for that.
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Has President Obama STILL not personally sent you a hand-written note thanking you for all you've done for black people?

giphy.gif
 
O no more people have Healthcare and won't die! We're doomed!!!!!!
 
Sgt Hulka said:
This is actually not true. The market has responded to this kind of "charge what you want" policy in the US by the booming medical tourism industry. Many patients are getting minor surgeries and even major surgeries abroad due to cost. Companies have been started to facilitate the process and to help patients pick accredited and safe hospital/surgeon options.

Again, the two areas of medicine that have been left to market forces are the only two areas where quality has skyrockedted while prices have plumetted. Lasik surgery and Cosmetic surgery.
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Soooo you're saying that paying for an international trip and surgery out of pocket abroad is cheaper than having it in the US with now readily available health insurance that can't dismiss pre existing conditions?

.................. Ok
 
The worst idea is to allow insurers to sell across state lines. They will do exactly what credit card companies have done. They will move their HQs to the states with the least protect of consumers and rates. If you think it's a pain in the ass to deal with insurance companies now, pray that they will never be able to sell across state lines.

It's also a myth that prices will drop if that happens. The giants will go into states and create virtual monopolies (even greater than today) and quickly have no competition. Rates will sky rocket with no way to control them.
 
Sgt Hulka said:
Again, the two areas of medicine that have been left to market forces are the only two areas where quality has skyrockedted while prices have plumetted. Lasik surgery and Cosmetic surgery.
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Gotta be careful though... There are some rough $5k boob jobs out there. You get what you pay for.
 
His two examples are pretty much the definition of exceptions to the rules, pointing to elective surgery and cosmetic surgery. How does that possible address what I said where you have limited choices, and your choice is life or death, not do I want Cs or Ds.
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
His two examples are pretty much the definition of exceptions to the rules, pointing to elective surgery and cosmetic surgery. How does that possible address what I said where you have limited choices, and your choice is life or death, not do I want Cs or Ds.
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I didn't even read your post. I'm just adding commentary on good vs. bad boob jobs. $8-$10k gets the the primo ones... I'll be happy to provide examples from my personal research.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I mean, yeah it is. It did a great job of making that bill affordable, didn't it? Instead, treatment prices went up and insurance costs went up because of additional uncollectibility and another layer of administration, which is one of the greatest testaments to ineptitude in political history. The hospital has to bill you $2,000 for doing basically nothing because they get $0 from plenty of other patients who they have to do things for. Obamacare did a great job of addressing that problem, didn't it? Not to mention the absurd mandated "wellness" expenditures that the healthcare systems have to pay for yet have gotten absolutely no ROI on because there is no patient incentive to adhere to anything, so your bill for treatment goes up to cover that shit.

Plus the fact that you went to the ER instead of urgent care for a soup burn.
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This. Another great post on the subject, 2&2. Actually, this stuff isn't rocket science. Why are there so many supposedly intelligent posters on this board who don't seem to understand the simple fact that when you give away free stuff to more & more people, there are other people somewhere who are going to end up paying for it?
 
bobknightfan said:
I don't understand why people are surprised that ObamaCare premiums are exploding. When you add free or heavily subsidized coverage for 8 or 10 million new people, somebody else somewhere has to pay for it. This is only the tip of the iceberg. From day one Obama has been nothing more than a snake-oil salesman regarding his ObamaCare promises, lying thru his teeth about what was going to happen....and he had to know he was lying when he said it. It served his real purpose, though.....adding a few million more votes to the Democrats' long-term Welfare State strategy.

About the only difference between Obama and Hillary is that you know Hillary is lying right away, but Obama can lie in such a way that he can make people believe that he is being honest with them. It is his special political gift. You have to give him credit for that.
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If it is "exploding" now, what was it doing before?
 
Just reviewed some employees health care plans today. First one I saw jumped from $330/month to $814/month. Second one went from $315/month to $750/month.

I think pretty much all our employees are going to drop their coverage and just pay the fine. $10,000 a year for healthcare is ridiculous for pretty much anyone making less than $50,0000/year, and even if you are making over that it is going to be a stretch. This thing is going to get ugly before it gets better. Republicans are going to help fix a system of healthcare that they predicted would fail, and then predictably it did fail. They are going to to settle for nothing less than eliminating Obamacare and starting something new. The worse it gets, the better it is politically for them, so the leverage is all on their side. Will be interesting to see if Hillary breaks or if she rides out the storm and tries to turn around the spin. If she tries that to save Obamacare I think it haunts her entire presidency (however long that is).
 
If you make less than $50,000 a year the subsidies kick in. the people who are really screwed are the ones that were just above the subsidy level and have no other Alternatives but ACA individual care

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Wrangor said:
Just reviewed some employees health care plans today. First one I saw jumped from $330/month to $814/month. Second one went from $315/month to $750/month.

I think pretty much all our employees are going to drop their coverage and just pay the fine. $10,000 a year for healthcare is ridiculous for pretty much anyone making less than $50,0000/year, and even if you are making over that it is going to be a stretch. This thing is going to get ugly before it gets better. Republicans are going to help fix a system of healthcare that they predicted would fail, and then predictably it did fail. They are going to to settle for nothing less than eliminating Obamacare and starting something new. The worse it gets, the better it is politically for them, so the leverage is all on their side. Will be interesting to see if Hillary breaks or if she rides out the storm and tries to turn around the spin. If she tries that to save Obamacare I think it haunts her entire presidency (however long that is).
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Republicans predicted it would fail and then worked to make sure it did.
 
ChrisL68 said:
If you make less than $50,000 a year the subsidies kick in. the people who are really screwed are the ones that were just above the subsidy level and have no other Alternatives but ACA individual care

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Isn't that they way virtually all Democratic plans are designed to work.....to provide for the lower income class and screw the middle class?
 
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