Athletic department direction

[Bones McKinney]

So let us ask a relevant question. With the terrible sports year that Wake Forest athletics have had, especially in men's sports but women's basketball and tennis not to be left out of any discussion, is there any chance our vaunted leader will resign or retire in shame? Like take early retirement or will President Hatch finally have a real reason to fire him for all his bad hirings over the years? Our athletic program is in shambles and there is not any end in sight next year in football and basketball.

Will we have any DC donors left? Will we have average basketball crowds of 5000 this coming season. After the Notre Dame home game season will we sell any tickets for football in 2012 after a 3 or 4 win 2011 season? Coach Grobe got a lot of rope with the 2006 ACC title but even Gary Williams wore out the welcome less than 10 years from a national title. Prior coaches got the ax a few years after great championships. When does the leader himself have to take responsibility for the entire shape of an athletic program in shambles?

 

[BillBrasky]

If at this time next year our basketball team is sub-500 and we don't go bowling again I imagine that Wellman's seat will be pretty warm.

 

[deacvision7]

I would love to see our bball team with an above .500 record next season, that would be awesome.
As for football, I think we flirt with bowling.


As for Wellman, I sold that stock about 4 months ago. Just riding out the wave now. Man is a power hungry despot as far as I'm concerned.

 

[PhDeac]

I think football and basketball will be ugly, but not as ugly as last year in terms of margins of loss and style. It will give some hope and convince others that both programs are stuck and not likely to just cycle out of it into consistent success.

I've predicted that Wellman will be ushered out and the new AD will make new hires. I doubt it would happen next year and probably not 2013, but definitely in 2014. I just don't think either program is going in the right direction. After 2 more seasons and more PR misfires, it will likely be apparent to more people.

 

[tvcigar]

The seat occupied by Mr. Wellman can't take many more farts.

 

[West End Deac]

Predicting that a 60-63 year old man (he graduated from college in '70) will be "ushered out" in 2013-2014 is hardly a bold statement. You're giving yourself a big window there. Besides, what's more likely is that he'll leave -- I think many call it retirement.

This year has been horrible but not necessarily so in the context of Wake's athletic history, just our recent history. The basketball team was one of the worst in ACC history, understood, and Wellman is definitely hanging his hat on this whole "culture change" philosophy Bzzz preaches. Football -- the beat down by MD just underscored how much things changed last year for JG. Like most, I think you can agree Ph that a year of close losses, perhaps 5-7, would be tolerable.

But looking at the athletic programs as a whole, it's not all doom and gloom. Women's golf is back in NCAAs. They'll have a tough road without Shin and Sheary next year but Dailey always fields a solid club. Men's tennis -- round of 32. Women's soccer -- 16. Men's and women's xc/track -- terrible, and it may get worse before it gets better as they have some scholarship athletes that need to be cleared out, but the new coaching staff is engaged and eliciting solid improvements out of kids that were not improving with the old regime. Baseball -- ACCs -- got to take that as a good sign, right? Women's bb -- same old song. Women's tennis -- horrible. Volleyball -- I have no idea (I think they were better this year but college volleyball in the south is utterly laughable). Men's soccer -- we still believe in Jay, do we not? Men's golf -- not good, and yet the new facility is a big plus for our future.

So I'll make a prediction of my own, one that is about as laughable as Ph's -- RW will never be fired. He'll resign/retire of his own accord. I call my prediction laughable b/c, considering his age and his overall body of work, the odds of anything else happening are slim. Please don't interpret this post as an endorsement of RW's work as of late but, in the grander scheme of things, we should all acknowledge that RW has been good for Wake Forest athletics.

I think football and basketball will be ugly, but not as ugly as last year in terms of margins of loss and style. It will give some hope and convince others that both programs are stuck and not likely to just cycle out of it into consistent success.

I've predicted that Wellman will be ushered out and the new AD will make new hires. I doubt it would happen next year and probably not 2013, but definitely in 2014. I just don't think either program is going in the right direction. After 2 more seasons and more PR misfires, it will likely be apparent to more people.

 

[Sgt Hulka]

I don't know why, but I am cautiously optimistic about football this year. I know we have a brutal sched, but I still feel good about it.

I am generally an optimistic guy, though.

 

[TBR]

Predicting that a 60-63 year old man (he graduated from college in '70) will be "ushered out" in 2013-2014 is hardly a bold statement. You're giving yourself a big window there. Besides, what's more likely is that he'll leave -- I think many call it retirement.

This year has been horrible but not necessarily so in the context of Wake's athletic history, just our recent history. The basketball team was one of the worst in ACC history, understood, and Wellman is definitely hanging his hat on this whole "culture change" philosophy Bzzz preaches. Football -- the beat down by MD just underscored how much things changed last year for JG. Like most, I think you can agree Ph that a year of close losses, perhaps 5-7, would be tolerable.

But looking at the athletic programs as a whole, it's not all doom and gloom. Women's golf is back in NCAAs. They'll have a tough road without Shin and Sheary next year but Dailey always fields a solid club. Men's tennis -- round of 32. Women's soccer -- 16. Men's and women's xc/track -- terrible, and it may get worse before it gets better as they have some scholarship athletes that need to be cleared out, but the new coaching staff is engaged and eliciting solid improvements out of kids that were not improving with the old regime. Baseball -- ACCs -- got to take that as a good sign, right? Women's bb -- same old song. Women's tennis -- horrible. Volleyball -- I have no idea (I think they were better this year but college volleyball in the south is utterly laughable). Men's soccer -- we still believe in Jay, do we not? Men's golf -- not good, and yet the new facility is a big plus for our future.

So I'll make a prediction of my own, one that is about as laughable as Ph's -- RW will never be fired. He'll resign/retire of his own accord. I call my prediction laughable b/c, considering his age and his overall body of work, the odds of anything else happening are slim. Please don't interpret this post as an endorsement of RW's work as of late but, in the grander scheme of things, we should all acknowledge that RW has been good for the Wake Forest athletics.

Whatever happens will be sold as a retirement of his own accord, but that won't mean it was really of his own accord.

 

[pourdeac]

I think both football and basketball will rebound a lot faster than people think because both were plagued by recruiting troughs last year. That'll help Wellman out immensely.

Grobe failed to recruit well from 05-07 but started recruiting better post Orange Bowl which took some time to root given the nature of football recruiting and redshirting. That's now behind him. We had a young team that can only get better. Bzz was hit by the loss of the "big class", 3 "2 and dones" and then his only big man...sort of an uber trough. That's also behind him now and we have some great kids on a very young team, with more coming on board.

So IMO the worst is by far behind us. I'm pretty optimistic this year in both sports. Wellman will have some pressure taken off him.

 

[West End Deac]

What's more, when he retires there will be a group of people who will always believe, regardless of what is said, that it wasn't of his own accord. I maintain it will be but I accept there are other opinions out there.

Whatever happens will be sold as a retirement of his own accord, but that won't mean it was really of his own accord.

 

[HeavyPetter]

I think both football and basketball will rebound a lot faster than people think because both were plagued by recruiting troughs last year. That'll help Wellman out immensely.

Grobe failed to recruit well from 05-07 but started recruiting better post Orange Bowl which took some time to root given the nature of football recruiting and redshirting. That's now behind him. We had a young team that can only get better. Bzz was hit by the loss of the "big class", 3 "2 and dones" and then his only big man...sort of an uber trough. That's also behind him now and we have some great kids on a very young team, with more coming on board.

So IMO the worst is by far behind us. I'm pretty optimistic this year in both sports. Wellman will have some pressure taken off him.

YEAH BABY!!! BUZZZZZZ IN!!!1

 

[TBR]

What's more, when he retires there will be a group of people who will always believe, regardless of what is said, that it wasn't of his own accord. I maintain it will be but I accept there are other opinions out there.

Probably depends on how well the seasons immediately prior to his retirement go.

I hope there's not any doubt at all about it.

 

[deacvision7]

What's more, when he retires there will be a group of people who will always believe, regardless of what is said, that it wasn't of his own accord. I maintain it will be but I accept there are other opinions out there.

Depends on how everything is looking at the time of his "retirement."

Our two big revenue sports continue to suffer and go downhill and his position gets worse and worse. No matter how much success he has brought us in the past. "What have you done for me lately?" and all that.

 

[JimDuncan]

Good luck finding another AD who will do half as good a job as Wellman. As someone who spent 4 years working in the athletic department as a student, I can honestly tell you that he is almost impossible to replace. DV7, calling the man a "despot" - seriously? Do you have any appreciation for what he has done for this place - MIRACLES for wake athletics. Look at the baseball stadium, golf complex, Deacon Tower, Tennis center, etc.

I know we had a bad year in hoops and we should do everything we can to right that ship, but calling for Wellman's head is myopic and just flat out foolish.

And football is off the table for discussion with JG at the helm because we have elevated the program in a consistent fashion with not only wins, but facilities, etc. Take a look at football in the Caldwell era as a stark comparison.

Call me an ath. dept. homer, that's fine, but I know of what I speak.

 

[MBDeac08]

Good luck finding another AD who will do half as good a job as Wellman. As someone who spent 4 years working in the athletic department as a student, I can honestly tell you that he is almost impossible to replace. DV7, calling the man a "despot" - seriously? Do you have any appreciation for what he has done for this place - MIRACLES for wake athletics. Look at the baseball stadium, golf complex, Deacon Tower, Tennis center, etc.

I know we had a bad year in hoops and we should do everything we can to right that ship, but calling for Wellman's head is myopic and just flat out foolish.

And football is off the table for discussion with JG at the helm because we have elevated the program in a consistent fashion with not only wins, but facilities, etc. Take a look at football in the Caldwell era as a stark comparison.

Call me an ath. dept. homer, that's fine, but I know of what I speak.

pos rep. While Wellman hasn't been perfect, I hate to see people judge him only on the bad things he has done. Yeah, Buzz seems like a bad hire right now, but there have been other positives as JD posted. Overall, our athletics are much better than when RW was hired.

If things don't improve, then maybe his legacy changes. But if he were to retire right now, I'd be pretty happy with what he accomplished at Wake.

 

[TBR]

It's great that Wellman has done all of that stuff (and he really has accomplished a lot wrt facilities), but I don't think basketball has gotten the attention (read: resources) it needs.

 

[jaybone]

Good luck finding another AD who will do half as good a job as Wellman. As someone who spent 4 years working in the athletic department as a student, I can honestly tell you that he is almost impossible to replace. DV7, calling the man a "despot" - seriously? Do you have any appreciation for what he has done for this place - MIRACLES for wake athletics. Look at the baseball stadium, golf complex, Deacon Tower, Tennis center, etc.

I know we had a bad year in hoops and we should do everything we can to right that ship, but calling for Wellman's head is myopic and just flat out foolish.

And football is off the table for discussion with JG at the helm because we have elevated the program in a consistent fashion with not only wins, but facilities, etc. Take a look at football in the Caldwell era as a stark comparison.

Call me an ath. dept. homer, that's fine, but I know of what I speak.

This.

 

[mebanedeac]

Predicting that a 60-63 year old man (he graduated from college in '70) will be "ushered out" in 2013-2014 is hardly a bold statement. You're giving yourself a big window there. Besides, what's more likely is that he'll leave -- I think many call it retirement.

This year has been horrible but not necessarily so in the context of Wake's athletic history, just our recent history. The basketball team was one of the worst in ACC history, understood, and Wellman is definitely hanging his hat on this whole "culture change" philosophy Bzzz preaches. Football -- the beat down by MD just underscored how much things changed last year for JG. Like most, I think you can agree Ph that a year of close losses, perhaps 5-7, would be tolerable.

But looking at the athletic programs as a whole, it's not all doom and gloom. Women's golf is back in NCAAs. They'll have a tough road without Shin and Sheary next year but Dailey always fields a solid club. Men's tennis -- round of 32. Women's soccer -- 16. Men's and women's xc/track -- terrible, and it may get worse before it gets better as they have some scholarship athletes that need to be cleared out, but the new coaching staff is engaged and eliciting solid improvements out of kids that were not improving with the old regime. Baseball -- ACCs -- got to take that as a good sign, right? Women's bb -- same old song. Women's tennis -- horrible. Volleyball -- I have no idea (I think they were better this year but college volleyball in the south is utterly laughable). Men's soccer -- we still believe in Jay, do we not? Men's golf -- not good, and yet the new facility is a big plus for our future.

So I'll make a prediction of my own, one that is about as laughable as Ph's -- RW will never be fired. He'll resign/retire of his own accord. I call my prediction laughable b/c, considering his age and his overall body of work, the odds of anything else happening are slim. Please don't interpret this post as an endorsement of RW's work as of late but, in the grander scheme of things, we should all acknowledge that RW has been good for the Wake Forest athletics.

That is the most reasonable and, I believe, accurate analysis that I have read in a long time. Well done!

 

[cville deac]

I think both football and basketball will rebound a lot faster than people think because both were plagued by recruiting troughs last year. That'll help Wellman out immensely.

Grobe failed to recruit well from 05-07 but started recruiting better post Orange Bowl which took some time to root given the nature of football recruiting and redshirting. That's now behind him. We had a young team that can only get better. Bzz was hit by the loss of the "big class", 3 "2 and dones" and then his only big man...sort of an uber trough. That's also behind him now and we have some great kids on a very young team, with more coming on board.

So IMO the worst is by far behind us. I'm pretty optimistic this year in both sports. Wellman will have some pressure taken off him.

I'll give you football. But exactly what is leading you to be optimistic in hoops this season? Granted, it's almost impossible to be worse than we were this past season. But we have the same coach, the same players and a weak recruiting class by mid-major standards. There is often improvement between players' 1st and 2nd seasons, and maybe Chennault and Tabb can contribute positively now that they're healthy and/or academically eligible. But other than some modest individual improvement across the board, what leads you to believe next years hoops will be significantly better?

 

[PhDeac]

A year of close losses that finishes at 5-7 would definitely be on the right track, West End. I think you would acknowledge that last year was a long way from that.

I admire that optimism but the problems in both programs are real. In the case of football, it's the same problems we've had for a long time that were masked by one great class and some other good players that were a perfect fit for Grobe's style. Much like Odom and Prosser, Grobe struggles to make his style work without those "once in a lifetime" players.

The party line is what pourman said, that we've got to wait for the positive effects of the bowls to kick in. Not really. Next season's seniors and juniors are the first two classes recruited after the Orange Bowl and both signed to join teams that just went to bowls. So all of next year's team is post-OB recruits. I don't think anybody would just

Grobe has struggled to recruit from a position of strength, the same problem Odom and Prosser had. Prosser's verbals after the 2003 season (#1 ACC regular season and #2 seed)? Kevin Swinton and David Weaver. After the 2004 Sweet Sixteen? Harvey Hale.

But it's tough to replace legends. Much like Odom getting Duncan from the VI or Prosser getting Paul from Wake's backyard, it would be very hard for Grobe to duplicate taking a 19 man class with 14 defensive players and perhaps the most clutch player we've ever had in Sam Swank. If that's what it takes to go to 3 straight bowls again, don't count on it. What we've seen is that Grobe still thinks he can win like he did with the FRESH DEACS (it feels good just to type that) without them and he's not changing his basic philosophy to do so, especially when things get tough (i.e. Odom post-Haywood tip/Peppers BOOM! UNC game).

I don't have a lot of hope that we have that level of NFL-caliber talent on the defense to win or that the coaching will make the adjustments necessary. I do have some hope that the coaching changes in the offseason will lead to positives on the field, but it's a last hope.