F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

[WFFaithful]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3195645/posts

Sign Ideas for Ferguson Counter-Protests

 

[ChrisL68]

Well, Ph is arguing that there exists a disconnect between where cops live and the communities they patrol and that it leads to greater misunderstanding and a lack of trust. Do you suppose you have any real idea of the conditions in these poor communities? Do you or Townie,etc., have any real way of knowing what the police feel after patrolling these areas day after day. Do we,myself included,have any feel for the feelings of those who live in these communities where the police presence is so noticeable day in and out?

This is the crowd (OGB) which preaches "nuance" yet shows a striking lack of complexity when dealing with this deeply complex issue.

There is a mantra out there which says "check your privilege at the door"...well,that expression may apply here and from several different points of view.

One of your better posts, IMO.

 

[THE DEUCE]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3195645/posts

Sign Ideas for Ferguson Counter-Protests

Tea Party = idiot bigots

 

[SkinsNDeacs]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3195645/posts

Sign Ideas for Ferguson Counter-Protests

Banner at the bottom of the page

lol

 

[avalon]

I'm sure ph's parents had "the talk" with him about how to conduct himself around police. I'm honestly anxious and feel ill prepared to have that talk with my son who's black and sick that realistically my two boys would be treated differently. And that's a real fear. A couple of years ago two teenage black boys had the police called on them and we're harassed for "suspicious strolling" in our neighborhood. They live 4 doors down from me and were just walking home.

This is what gets me with each of these incidents, the fear it must create for parents. Terror that your kid could be the next Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown, Renisha McBride, Ezell Ford. How to teach them that they are responsible for ensuring that other people aren’t scared of them. How to teach them that they may get stopped often when they are doing nothing wrong, and that their anger is justified, but they should never show it.

"There's nothing like the first time that a gun is held on you," Questlove told Amy Goodman, the TV/radio program's longtime host, as he recalled that first stop in Philly. "We're 16, mind you, like 16, 17 years old," he said. " I remember my father telling me, like, 'If you're ever in this position, you're to slowly keep your hands up.''

^^ My parents never had that talk with me.

 

[jhmd2000]

***

You guys aren't going to find many more black guys as similar to you all than me yet you just can't accept it. How are we going to have meaningful dialogue if you can't even accept someone with a different experience and different fears than you? This is the problem. My experience is somehow meaningless to you. I understand that you all trust police. Understand that I don't.

You make a valid point.

 

[TownieDeac]

Well, Ph is arguing that there exists a disconnect between where cops live and the communities they patrol and that it leads to greater misunderstanding and a lack of trust. Do you suppose you have any real idea of the conditions in these poor communities? Do you or Townie,etc., have any real way of knowing what the police feel after patrolling these areas day after day. Do we,myself included,have any feel for the feelings of those who live in these communities where the police presence is so noticeable day in and out?

This is the crowd (OGB) which preaches "nuance" yet shows a striking lack of complexity when dealing with this deeply complex issue.

There is a mantra out there which says "check your privilege at the door"...well,that expression may apply here and from several different points of view.

Only most of my extended family on my dad's side who are and have been police officers in Detroit for generations. Other than that, no idea.

Well, aside from my experiences with friends on the wrong side of the tracks in Winston. The ones where, if we had weed in the car, it was in the car full of white kids, not the black kids, even though we were meeting up to go to the same place and hang out. I've documented my experiences in Winston plenty of times. And you, much like jh, have not done the intellectual groundwork so far in this thread to convince me that epistemic privilege or epistemic authority are real areas of concern towards us having this conversation. If you want to go that way, it's going to make for pretty boring conversations around here.

 

[Lectro]

A Salt Lake City police officer shot and killed 20-year-old Dillon Taylor outside a convenience store Aug. 11, 2014.
While national news media continue to focus on race in Ferguson, Missouri, where a white police officer shot and killed an unarmed black teenager, they apparently don’t think a similar case in Utah with the races reversed is that newsworthy.
Police in Salt Lake City are continuing their probe into an Aug. 11 shooting outside a 7-Eleven convenience store, when a black police officer, whom local media are referring to as “not white,” shot and killed 20-year-old Dillon Taylor, who was unarmed at the time, according to his supporters.
Police Chief Chris Burbank said the entire incident was captured on the body camera of the officer who shot Taylor.

“You will see on camera … the actions of everyone involved, including up to the point where our officer utilizes deadly force and his response thereafter,” Burbank told reporters.
He said the video, along with the officer’s identity, will be released at the “appropriate” time, adding it could be days, weeks or months.


*Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2014/08/black-cop-kills-white-man-media-hide-race/#mwJ0mCfBVcedQE40.99

I am not saying the assertion is correct - "media hiding race"... that is open for debate.

The military tactics and weaponry wielded is of greater concern, imho

 

[Lectro]

Only most of my extended family on my dad's side who are and have been police officers in Detroit for generations. Other than that, no idea.

Well, aside from my experiences with friends on the wrong side of the tracks in Winston. The ones where, if we had weed in the car, it was in the car full of white kids, not the black kids, even though we were meeting up to go to the same place and hang out. I've documented my experiences in Winston plenty of times. And you, much like jh, have not done the intellectual groundwork so far in this thread to convince me that epistemic privilege or epistemic authority are real areas of concern towards us having this conversation. If you want to go that way, it's going to make for pretty boring conversations around here.

Oh, so your proximity to family members on your dad's side of the family...ok.

*I'm sorry but that's precisely the smartass comment I'd expect from you had someone else floated into the lane and tried that finger-roll.

 

[jhmd2000]

Only most of my extended family on my dad's side who are and have been police officers in Detroit for generations. Other than that, no idea.

Well, aside from my experiences with friends on the wrong side of the tracks in Winston. The ones where, if we had weed in the car, it was in the car full of white kids, not the black kids, even though we were meeting up to go to the same place and hang out. I've documented my experiences in Winston plenty of times. And you, much like jh, have not done the intellectual groundwork so far in this thread to convince me that epistemic privilege or epistemic authority are real areas of concern towards us having this conversation. If you want to go that way, it's going to make for pretty boring conversations around here.

I hear his brother is a fighter pilot, too.

 

[Lectro]

I hear his brother is a fighter pilot, too.

However, his use of "epistemic" should be enough to verify "street cred"

 

[RJKarl]

The people on here acting like they know exactly what happened need to chill out. There are still so many conflicting versions it's impossible to know (unless you're RJ, who's just omniscient).

What else do you expect the cop to say? Do you expect to say- I was pissed that he hit me. I got out of my ca and didn't care that his hands were up. i gunned him down."

The only semi-witness other than Johnson that we've heard anything from is a friend of the cop leaking his alleged story.

Here's a question after being shot once do actually think he keep coming at the cop?

The alleged video with nine shots actually makes more sense than six shots/six hits when look at the pattern of the hits.

As usual mike echoes a laziness here.....take a totally unprovoked shot RJ regardless of if it's true, others will agree, but it's RJ's fault if he hits back.

 

[jhmd2000]

However, his use of "epistemic" should be enough to verify "street cred"

I am impressed by the diverse experiences that flower his family tree, obvious comfort with big words and healthy self-image. Let's focus on the positives on a Friday.

 

[TownieDeac]

Oh, so your proximity to family members on your dad's side of the family...ok.

*I'm sorry but that's precisely the smartass comment I'd expect from you had someone else floated into the lane and tried that finger-roll.

I hear his brother is a fighter pilot, too.

However, his use of "epistemic" should be enough to verify "street cred"

I am impressed by the diverse experiences that flower his family tree, obvious comfort with big words and healthy self-image. Let's focus on the positives on a Friday.

Since you're willing to flippantly dismiss Ph, I figured maybe you'd listen to a white person. I figured maybe I had the "street cred" you were looking for. But I'll do what Lupe suggests and "dumb it down."

Epistemology is the study of knowledge, understanding, and experience. The theory of epistemic privilege suggests that we cannot know or understand the experiences of people in circumstances other than our own. It's the stance both of you are taking, that we can't possibly understand what it's like because we aren't poor or black. It's a tool both for paternalistic Democrats and neoconservatives who have a vested interest in nothing changing.

You ask for experience and then say it's not good enough. Yet you're pretty well set in your own opinions of the scenario. Lectro, I don't think I've disagreed with much of what you said until you postulated that I can't have an opinion. Up until about three months ago, I lived in an all-black community. For 15 blocks in any direction, all below the poverty line. I was making below the poverty line myself. The way I held myself when a cop drove by was way different than my neighbors and friends. I'm sure this is still too anecdotal for you, or inauthentic, or whatever. Yet you're trying to have it both ways and say that you can speak from authority in spite of your own lack of experience.

It's frustrating.

 

[TripleDeacon]

The alleged video with nine shots actually makes more sense than six shots/six hits when look at the pattern of the hits.

As usual mike echoes a laziness here.....take a totally unprovoked shot RJ regardless of if it's true, others will agree, but it's RJ's fault if he hits back.

Huh? If you mean the video posted and discussed a few pages back in this thread that's a totally different shooting.

 

[jhmd2000]

Since you're willing to flippantly dismiss Ph, I figured maybe you'd listen to a white person. I figured maybe I had the "street cred" you were looking for. But I'll do what Lupe suggests and "dumb it down."

Epistemology is the study of knowledge, understanding, and experience. The theory of epistemic privilege suggests that we cannot know or understand the experiences of people in circumstances other than our own. It's the stance both of you are taking, that we can't possibly understand what it's like because we aren't poor or black. It's a tool both for paternalistic Democrats and neoconservatives who have a vested interest in nothing changing.

You ask for experience and then say it's not good enough. Yet you're pretty well set in your own opinions of the scenario. Lectro, I don't think I've disagreed with much of what you said until you postulated that I can't have an opinion. Up until about three months ago, I lived in an all-black community. For 15 blocks in any direction, all below the poverty line. I was making below the poverty line myself. The way I held myself when a cop drove by was way different than my neighbors and friends. I'm sure this is still too anecdotal for you, or inauthentic, or whatever. Yet you're trying to have it both ways and say that you can speak from authority in spite of your own lack of experience.

It's frustrating.

Townie,

As I said, it is Friday and I am going to focus on the positives and I am sorry to hear that you are frustrated. I am proud of you for practicing the diversity that you preach, a rare trait in these parts (although I would go with "mostly" as opposed to "all", in describing your neighborhood. After all, you were there. Let's not exaggerate if we can help it.).

I will not consent to being saddled with the concurring with the following, "we cannot know or understand the experiences of people in circumstances other than our own". Of course we can.

You are confusing my concern about the hypocrisy of dozens of rich white kids who have done an excellent job of preaching diversity in their lives (mostly to others) but a very poor job of practicing it(by moving from private school, to private school to six figure salaries in gated communities in expensive cities) sitting in confident judgment of Officer Wilson. They weren't there (and they likely never will be "there" in their town, see choices, above). Clearly you have some experiences to draw on. Great for you. We need more Townies.

 

[WakeandBake]

I agree.

It's also pretty ignorant to pick 2 stories out of the millions of arrests each year to illustrate that a cop is going to shoot you in the head if you listen to his instructions.

999,999 out of 1,000,000 times if a cop tells you to get on the ground and put your hands behind your head, and you do exactly what he/she says ... You will come out just fine.

Nothing excuses what this police officer did in shooting brown. But I am pretty positive that if brown had listened and obeyed from the get go he would still be alive. I am not blaming brown for being shot. He certainly didn't deserve that. The cop holds ultimate responsibility for the situation. But brown is responsible for his part in escalating the situation.

I see what you are saying, because I am a white boy like you. But I think that "come out just fine" isn't really what happens to black folks a lot of the time. They probably don;t get shot in the street, I agree. I think they get taken in and a bunch of trumped up charges get thrown at them, then they get the shit beaten out of them multiple times by cops - sometimes to the death- with no cameras around, who write up reports that the black guy attacked them.

I think this happens more than you or I or anyone will ever know, and has been happening to black men for so long in America that it is ingrained in them at a young age. They grow up hearing about dads and uncles who were railroaded by the cops. just sayin

 

[RJKarl]

Huh? If you mean the video posted and discussed a few pages back in this thread that's a totally different shooting.

Then I am mistaken.

 

[Milhouse]

I think this happens more than you or I or anyone will ever know, and has been happening to black men for so long in America that it is ingrained in them at a young age. They grow up hearing about dads and uncles who were railroaded by the cops. just sayin

single parent families dude

 

[FuckmouthedRube]

lol

Todd Akin used to be Ferguson's Congressman.