F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

[TownieDeac]

Townie,

As I said, it is Friday and I am going to focus on the positives and I am sorry to hear that you are frustrated. I am proud of you for practicing the diversity that you preach, a rare trait in these parts (although I would go with "mostly" as opposed to "all", in describing your neighborhood. After all, you were there. Let's not exaggerate if we can help it.).

I will not consent to being saddled with the concurring with the following, "we cannot know or understand the experiences of people in circumstances other than our own". Of course we can.

You are confusing my concern about the hypocrisy of dozens of rich white kids who have done an excellent job of preaching diversity in their lives (mostly to others) but a very poor job of practicing it(by moving from private school, to private school to six figure salaries in gated communities in expensive cities) sitting in confident judgment of Officer Wilson. They weren't there (and they likely never will be "there" in their town, see choices, above). Clearly you have some experiences to draw on. Great for you. We need more Townies.

Cool. As I said, I wasn't even generally disagreeing with either yours or Lec's stances for most of the thread. I just don't buy this epistemic privilege nonsense. It's a deconstructionist house of cards when you really get down to trying to defend it theoretically.

 

[WakeandBake]

hey jhmd I've bought and sold cocaine in East Winston with black guys who were affiliated with gangs. Can I hang with you?

 

[jhmd2000]

Cool. As I said, I wasn't even generally disagreeing with either yours or Lec's stances for most of the thread. I just don't buy this epistemic privilege nonsense. It's a deconstructionist house of cards when you really get down to trying to defend it theoretically.

I'm not planning on it, so that seems to solve both of our issues. I didn't even know what epistemic means. I had to look it up. I certainly don't believe I've argued that we can't know or understand the experiences of other people.

 

[jhmd2000]

hey jhmd I've bought and sold cocaine in East Winston with black guys who were affiliated with gangs. Can I hang with you?

No way, but not for those reasons.

 

[TownieDeac]

More than a few of whom live in expensive cities after having spent their entire educational experiences in private schools.

I love that you pretend not to know what I'm talking about. Lots of expert opinions on the poor from a place with $60,000.00 tuition annually. Nice little fence you've built for yourselves.

I must have misunderstood these arguments.

 

[WakeandBake]

you spin me right 'round baby right 'round, like a record baby round round round round

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

So the debate has "progressed" to the point where black people would be perfectly safe if they just cooperated with the police, as all the past instances of injustice and violence committed by the police towards black people have been isolated and random.

I'm glad we're getting somewhere - ph, I hope you've been taking notes on the correct way to deal with the police.

 

[WakeandBake]

So the debate has "progressed" to the point where black people would be perfectly safe if they just cooperated with the police, as all the past instances of injustice and violence committed by the police towards black people have been isolated and random.

I'm glad we're getting somewhere - ph, I hope you've been taking notes on the correct way to deal with the police.

tjcmd gave a great lecture on this a couple of pages back. dude knows his shit, its solid.

 

[tau06]

So the debate has "progressed" to the point where black people would be perfectly safe if they just cooperated with the police, as all the past instances of injustice and violence committed by the police towards black people have been isolated and random.

I'm glad we're getting somewhere - ph, I hope you've been taking notes on the correct way to deal with the police.

Not the point I'm trying to make if that's directed at me. Point I'm trying to make is that if you think you should try to disarm the police officer instead of obey his/her orders, your chances of something bad happening goes up exponentially. While Ph is arguing that trying to disarm a police officer is what a black man should do, because otherwise he's probably going to get murdered.

 

[jhmd2000]

I must have misunderstood these arguments.

There is a wide gulf between "You can't possibly know" and "You probably don't have standing to lecture others, given the choices you have made in your own life."

 

[TownieDeac]

Fair.

 

[WakeandBake]

I don't think he was arguing it is what he should do, I think he was arguing that black guys don't see the cops as benevolent protectors and servers, but more as menacing antagonists hell-bent on sending black men up the river. Therefore, when a black man is faced with a cop pointing a gun at him, his thought process is quite different from the white man who is generally the one being served and protected - ostensibly, from the black man.

 

[TownieDeac]

idk, i need a phdeac translator

 

[deacphan]

Well, Ph is arguing that there exists a disconnect between where cops live and the communities they patrol and that it leads to greater misunderstanding and a lack of trust. Do you suppose you have any real idea of the conditions in these poor communities? Do you or Townie,etc., have any real way of knowing what the police feel after patrolling these areas day after day. Do we,myself included,have any feel for the feelings of those who live in these communities where the police presence is so noticeable day in and out?

This is the crowd (OGB) which preaches "nuance" yet shows a striking lack of complexity when dealing with this deeply complex issue.

There is a mantra out there which says "check your privilege at the door"...well,that expression may apply here and from several different points of view.

there's public housing in my neighborhood. evictions in my neighborhood are higher than anywhere in my city, and this city is probably one of the worst in the us right now for that. i walk/ride my bike through one of the roughest neighborhoods in this city. i'd bet folks that live in expensive cities have a hell of a lot better idea of the plight of the poor than folks that live in lily white southern suburbs or the segregated small towns.

 

[WFFaithful]

nm

 

[tau06]

I don't think he was arguing it is what he should do, I think he was arguing that black guys don't see the cops as benevolent protectors and servers, but more as menacing antagonists hell-bent on sending black men up the river. Therefore, when a black man is faced with a cop pointing a gun at him, his thought process is quite different from the white man who is generally the one being served and protected - ostensibly, from the black man.

I would normally agree but then if you look at everything he's posted (including a few I don't have here) it seems to me like he fully believes that if I cop points a gun at him, that said cop is going to try to kill him and that he should try to disarm the cop.

And this goes back to the race discussion. In that situation, a white guy probably wouldn't think the cop would shoot him. The black guy would the cop is going to shoot and would try to defend himself by disarming the cop.

I don't know how bob manages to turn my words around.

I said if a cop is aiming a gun at me, I will act as if there's a good chance he will shoot it.

It's ludicrous to try to disarm someone who is trying to kill you from close range. Ok.

 

[RJKarl]

On the other end of the economic spectrum is Huntington Beach. It's upscale and has little crime. Many of my black friends simply won't go downtown because of cops hassling them.

A perfect example of this happened 2-3 years ago. It took some effort, but I convinced my friends Sean and Derrick to join me downtown. Sean about 6'2 with a very athletic build. Derrick is 6'5 about 225. Each played college bball. Each has a masters degree.

We ate a friend's place that is well known in the city and county as a locals place. Upon leaving, we started walking towards the pier. Two cops crossed the street to follow us. Sean and D immediately recognized what was happening. I said they were paranoid. We stopped to look in the window of a bar/club. The cops stopped. When we started walking, they started walking. Sean and D weren't paranoid.

I turned around and walked calmly up to the cops and asked them why they were following us. One stammered that they weren't. I mentioned that they had crossed the street to be behind us. When we stopped, they stopped. When we started walking again, they started again.

I again asked why they were doing this. They just took off.

The next day I called the PD to make a complaint. They didn't want to hear it.

The concept that black people aren't legitimately afraid of the police, even when they haven't done anything wrong, is ludicrous.

 

[Milhouse]

 

[tjcmd]

^It would have sounded a lot less made-up if he had provided last names and addresses/phone numbers for his "friends" and badge numbers of the policemen involved as well as a copy of the "complaint" he supposedly made with the PD.

 

[RJKarl]

Derrick scored over 1000 points for an east coast D1 school. Sean played at an historically black college.