F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

[DCDeac]

Who knows what happened. I'll admit when I first heard the story it reminded me of what people tell you if you decide to have a gun in your home and the day comes when you decide to use it.

You don't shoot to maim, you don't take out your gun unless you're going to fire, and you better kill the intruder or you'll get sued. Barking at guys for jaywalking on an empty neighborhood road would piss most people off, there was a confrontation and who knows who is to blame for it or how bad it was, who was more out of line. But you have to wonder if once he'd shot the guy once, the shoot to kill panic took over.

I just don't get why you don't use a taser. Seems like 99% of the "I see a couple guys jaywalking and they're being dicks" encounters end up with dudes getting tasered.

 

[PhDeac]

How many times have you been shot by a cop?

As many times as one has pointed a gun at me. Thankfully none.

also going back to the race discussion, the white guy never punches the cop in the first place.

Doesn't matter. Doesn't take a punch for a cop to aim his gun.

Is your position that the black guy would be justified in taking that action?

Self-defense. You would just let somebody shoot you without trying to save yourself?


You guys aren't going to find many more black guys as similar to you all than me yet you just can't accept it. How are we going to have meaningful dialogue if you can't even accept someone with a different experience and different fears than you? This is the problem. My experience is somehow meaningless to you. I understand that you all trust police. Understand that I don't.

 

[deacphan]

You guys aren't going to find many more black guys as similar to you all than me yet you just can't accept it. How are we going to have meaningful dialogue if you can't even accept someone with a different experience and different fears than you? This is the problem. My experience is somehow meaningless to you. I understand that you all trust police. Understand that I don't.

i'll save him the effort.

Don't ever try to judge me dude / You don't know what the fuck I've been through / But I know something about you / You went to Wake Forest - that's a private school / What's the matter, dog? / You're embarrassed? / This guy's a gangster? / His real name is PHDeac/ Now PHDeac lives at home wit both parents / And PHDeac's parents have a real good marriage.

in all seriousness, it is pretty incredible how easily your take on this is dismissed by those who then belittle our commentary because we have little to offer. i wonder who knows more about the life of a young black person? the black sociology professor or the ginger lawyer who went to a public university and law school and never left the south?

 

[DeaconSig]

i'll save him the effort.



in all seriousness, it is pretty incredible how easily your take on this is dismissed by those who then belittle our commentary because we have little to offer. i wonder who knows more about the life of a young black person? the black sociology professor or the ginger lawyer who went to a public university and law school and never left the south?

You got it wrong. Its the ginger lawyer who went to the public university and WAKE FOREST LAW SCHOOL. He somehow managed to pick the lower-rated of both undergraduate and law school choices.

Fuck all of y'all anyways. I was keeping it real on the mean streets are Raleigh NC when alot of you puddin-pants mofuggies were still shitting in your drawers (or in the case of some of the older element of the board, during the time before you started shitting in your drawers again).

 

[DeaconSig]

OK, let me see if I can summarize what you said in your earlier post:

Anytime a black man is stopped by a policeman, he should immediately go into a self-defense mode under the assumption that there is a good chance he is going to be shot. Therefore, the proper course of action from him would be to punch the officer and try to disarm him by taking away his gun.

Is that about it?

Not really.

 

[PhDeac]

I don't know how bob manages to turn my words around.

I said if a cop is aiming a gun at me, I will act as if there's a good chance he will shoot it.

 

[PhDeac]

Well, here is his exact quote from post #1199 on page 60 of this thread:

"The black guy would the cop is going to shoot and would try to defend himself by disarming the cop."

I guess PH was using the RJ technique of leaving a word out of his post after "The black guy would ....", but one could reasonably assume that the omitted word would be "think" or "assume" or "fear"...or something along that line.

So what am I missing here? Seems to me that I accurately summarized that sentence.

Sometimes I feel like I need a translator on these boards. I post simple things, yet some people can't (or won't) understand them.

Below is the post I quoted. Note in my post, I said "In that situation..." The bold is the situation. When I say situation, it means the same thing as "scenario" which is what TBDeac says. I don't know if that's the cause of confusion.

I think the most likely scenario is that Wilson got into the physical altercation with Brown where Wilson gets punched in the face. He now pulls out the gun, thinking it will discharge the threat and Brown will respect that he has his gun out. Brown charges at him anyway leaving Wilson feeling like he has no choice but to shoot him since he has his gun out already.

In that scenario it doesn't seem to really matter how hard the punch in the face was. The real issue was Wilson's decision to take out the gun in the first place, which did not have the desired effect on Brown, and in essense caused a dangerous situation to turn into a deadly one unnecessaily.

And this goes back to the race discussion. In that situation, a white guy probably wouldn't think the cop would shoot him. The black guy would the cop is going to shoot and would try to defend himself by disarming the cop.

I'm going to assume bkf is not stupid, so I'm just going to assume he's being dense on purpose.

 

[AMCDeac]

I don't know how bob manages to turn my words around.

I said if a cop is aiming a gun at me, I will act as if there's a good chance he will shoot it.

Any police officer that aims a gun in circumstances when shooting (and killing) is not justified should be fired and never allowed in a law enforcement position. The act of aiming means there is an intent to shoot. Aiming at something you don't intend to shoot is never justified.

 

[ONW]

How many cases of anyone charging a police officer aiming a gun at him and disarming the cop to save his own life are there on record?

 

[ONW]

The struggle for the gun occurred when Wilson was still in the patrol car, after Brown had leaned thru the window and punched him in the face. I don't think the gun was ever aimed at Brown during that time.....and you certainly don't "know" that it was. In any event, Brown instigated the entire confrontation with his aggressive behavior. (Ironically, just like George Zimmerman did with Trayvon Martin when the racial roles were reversed.)

There would have been no gun pulled at all...and Brown would still be alive....if he had not attacked the police officer in his patrol car. Brown was not being physically threatened when he initiated that physical action against the policeman.

How do you know any of that?

 

[FuckmouthedRube]

Any police officer that aims a gun in circumstances when shooting (and killing) is not justified should be fired and never allowed in a law enforcement position. The act of aiming means there is an intent to shoot. Aiming at something you don't intend to shoot is never justified.

One of the most chilling scenes I saw played out on the first night of protests. This one guy flipped off the cops and a red dot from a laser sight immediately appeared on his back.

 

[wfumike02]

Can you stand your ground against a cop?

No. The law does not recognize self defense against the police (at least not in any state I'm aware of). In the same vein, there is no right to resist arrest, even if it's an unlawful arrest.

I don't know how bob manages to turn my words around.

I said if a cop is aiming a gun at me, I will act as if there's a good chance he will shoot it.

Do you really think that if a cop pointed a gun at you - and that's assuming you did something to cause the cop to do it - that you would have to worry about being shot if you followed the cop's instructions?

 

[deacphan]

How do you know any of that?

by a maturing process involving decades of reasoning.

 

[tau06]

How many cases of anyone charging a police officer aiming a gun at him and disarming the cop to save his own life are there on record?

I'll throw zero out there and feel like I've got a pretty good chance of being correct. Just a crazy statement all the way around. Black or white, the last thing you should do when a police officer points a gun at you and tells you to stop what you are doing is to try and physically disarm said cop. Just crazy logic

 

[wfumike02]

The people on here acting like they know exactly what happened need to chill out. There are still so many conflicting versions it's impossible to know (unless you're RJ, who's just omniscient).

 

[ONW]

^ +1

 

[avalon]

Any police officer that aims a gun in circumstances when shooting (and killing) is not justified should be fired and never allowed in a law enforcement position. The act of aiming means there is an intent to shoot. Aiming at something you don't intend to shoot is never justified.

 

[ChrisL68]

If you are ever in a situation where a cop if pointing a gun at you. drop to the ground and put your hands over your head.

 

[deacvision7]

If you are ever in a situation where a cop if pointing a gun at you. drop to the ground and put your hands over your head.

Nope.

 

[PhDeac]

No. The law does not recognize self defense against the police (at least not in any state I'm aware of). In the same vein, there is no right to resist arrest, even if it's an unlawful arrest.



Do you really think that if a cop pointed a gun at you - and that's assuming you did something to cause the cop to do it - that you would have to worry about being shot if you followed the cop's instructions?

Why would you make that assumption?

http://rollingout.com/criminal-behavior/black-father-killed-police-holding-toy-gun-walmart/#_

He said he was at the video games playing videos and he went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were. And the next thing I know, he said ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting and they said ‘Get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him. And I could hear him just crying and screaming. I feel like they shot him down like he was not even human.

If you are ever in a situation where a cop if pointing a gun at you. drop to the ground and put your hands over your head.

Why? So they can shoot you in the back of your head?

http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/jonathan-ferrells-autopsy-results-spark-suit

The family of Jonathan Ferrell, an unarmed North Carolina man shot and killed by police shortly after he dragged himself from a violent car crash and sought help from neighbors, has filed a wrongful death lawsuit.
The lawsuit comes after autopsy results show that most of the bullets that hit Ferrell the night he was killed struck him with a downward trajectory, suggesting that he may have been on his knees or on the ground. Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Officer Randall Kerrick fired a dozen shots at him, according to the family.
Ferrell was hit with 10 of those bullets and died on that early morning last September in Charlotte, not long after crashing his car along a dark, rural road.