Official Wake Forest vs. Villanova Game Thread - 1:30 ET ESPN2

[Deacsfan27]

He reality is that nova is 10-12 points better than us. They played a great game. We played a good game and we still stuck around. We are going to be much improved and we still are very young.


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Yup. The defense and rebounding are a work in progress, but there is a lot of potential with this team.

If CoC loses to UCF today then we will be an underdog on their home floor in the 3rd Place Game on Sunday. Would be nice to get 2 wins out of this tournament.

 

[80deac]

Stayed the same in KP (68th):

Offense is 28th (highest since 2005)
Defense is 153rd (3rd worst in "P5")

Anyone can understand that D ranking if you watch us....Manning can't coach D or rebounding as clearly evidenced in all first 3 years....very easy to win when you can have twice as many or more possessions. I predict Manning is on schedule to have us at the middle of the pack ACC by year 5....wooohoo....

 

[Demonwolverine]

Disappointing game, but I still feel good about this team. Lack of defense is still a concern. That, and we are soft as baby shit when things get physical. Nova came to play today... Wake looked good shooting the ball (for the most part), but we still have a long way to go.

Meh, Wilbekin, Dinos and Arians just aren't going to muscle anyone up. Dinos is playing more physical than ever, but it's just not his game. I thought Collins and Crawford played physical. Moore is physical, but this just isn't his match up. Given that we will inevitably have to have Dinos, Arians and Wilbekin on the court at the same time, I'd like to see us use zone at least 1/3 of the time that group is out there. Personally, I'd like to see it 100% of the time with them, but Manning isn't going to do that, so I'll just leave it at 33%

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

The defense and rebounding are a bummer. But this is the best team we've had since Dino isn't it.

 

[Demonwolverine]

Anyone can understand that D ranking if you watch us....Manning can't coach D or rebounding as clearly evidenced in all first 3 years....very easy to win when you can have twice as many or more possessions. I predict Manning is on schedule to have us at the middle of the pack ACC by year 5....wooohoo....

That is wildly pessimistic. We didn't have holes in the dam when he got here, it was just a straight flood gate. Given what he has been able to correct in just 2 years, I'm thinking defense and rebounding should be a breeze. Man to Man defense takes lots of athleticism and chemistry. The former we have improved, but still start 3 guys with very little athleticism, and the latter I'm confident will come as the guys play together more. Manning is too competitive of a person to let things like defense and rebounding continue to be a problem. I was WAY more worried about him as an offensive coach when he came in, and he has all but fixed that in just 2 years.

 

[RJKarl]

Our D is never to be even average this year.

Wilbekin plays really hard, but he's small, has little quickness and no lateral ability.

Arians is exactly what we thought he would be. He's a very good shooter, with no conscience (a good thing) and no defensive ability.

Brandon will become a decent defender, but he's trying a little too hard and needs to work on his lateral movement.

Keyshawn is a very good defensive rebounder from the guard position. However, he doesn't move laterally well and isn't very good head-to-head defender.

As opposed to public opinion, Dinos has made great strides defensively. He's still a bit below average, but he's usually in the right place and does get rebounds. This is a leap forward.

Doral can be an excellent defender, but he's not there yet. A lot of this is he needs to get out of his own way.

JC is a better defender than numbers will show. He has to make up for our wings lack of lateral ability. Next year, he'll be a stud on D.

Bryant is our best guard/wing defender by a wide, wide margin. He plays his man well and the passing lanes very well. From time-to-time he tries to do too much.

The reality is we aren't a good defensive team. You can't will a team with a lack of lateral quickness into being a good defensive group. Luckily, we are a really good offensive team.

 

[Deacsfan27]

Anyone can understand that D ranking if you watch us....Manning can't coach D or rebounding as clearly evidenced in all first 3 years....very easy to win when you can have twice as many or more possessions. I predict Manning is on schedule to have us at the middle of the pack ACC by year 5....wooohoo....

His defense has ranked ahead of his offense every single year that he has been a coach. He also had a 51st nationally ranked defense at Tulsa in year 2 there. Hard to tell if that's the players that Wojcik recruited, or the coaching itself because Haith came in and had the 27th ranked defense the year after Manning left.

This year's team is never going to be good at defense in my opinion. They are too limited athletically, especially when it comes to lateral foot movement. That will hopefully be improved upon as the year goes along, but we're in for a long year if we can't figure something out.

At the very least we should play a lot of high scoring, fun games.

 

[warak]

Anyone can understand that D ranking if you watch us....Manning can't coach D or rebounding as clearly evidenced in all first 3 years....very easy to win when you can have twice as many or more possessions. I predict Manning is on schedule to have us at the middle of the pack ACC by year 5....wooohoo....

Get a grip man.

This team is mid-ACC, rather quick turnaround. We all want it faster, but stay within reality. Manning has got us on the right path. He has not been a head coach very long and has got a top 50 player to come here. We are learning together...glass half full.

 

[Deacsfan27]

Get a grip man.

This team is mid-ACC, rather quick turnaround. We all want it faster, but stay within reality. Manning has got us on the right path. He has not been a head coach very long and has got a top 50 player to come here. We are learning together...glass half full.

Just so we're clear, "mid-acc", meaning 7th/8th place, is between 19th and 36th in the country and a solid 6-7 seed in the NCAA Tournament.

I think we need to define what "mid-acc" means in this capacity. The ACC is absolutely loaded this year.

If we are "mid-acc" by 80's definition in year 5 then I'm fine with that. Means we will have made back to back NCAA Championships and should have a 20 win season. That's the right path.

 

[RJKarl]

The ACC is better than it has been in years. If we end up in the middle or the pack, it would be awesome.

 

[jaybone]

Disagree on a lot of these points, RJ

Arians has proven to be a better defender than expected. Good hands, plays team defense well. He looks like Mike Gminski with the beard and the way he holds his shoulders. He is going to look 40 years old in 3 years. Very good player, lucky to have him.

Wilbekin is stepping up as an upperclassman. Tired of the hits he takes on here. He is valuable guy. May play less minutes down the road as Chill plays more but he is super valuable to any team with tourney aspirations. You need a 6th or 7th guy to be able to put up 13-15 every 4 or 5 games, and he is not getting embarrassed defensively.

Brandon was horrible in this game. Took it on the chin as he basically attmpted to try and out gun the All-American Josh Hart. Huge mistake. He took 3 or 4 just awful shots and we went from 13 down to 18 down in a heartbeat thanks to his selfish play. I don't think he's a selfish player, and I still think he's our 2nd best player, but man, I hope Manning and Chill make him watch this tape over and over. This was How to Get Schooled by an Upperclassman Future Pro 101. We get this game under 8 points at the 5 minute mark, maybe closer if Crawford doesn't go gonzo on us.

Collins is going to be so much better this year than Thomas was his junior year (his best year, I think).

I love mini-beard. I think he can possibly lead the country this year in points off the bench if he remains there. 15 pts per game I think. He gets junk buckets, knows when to attack weaknesses and lulls in intensity, and is a great 3 point shooter.

Agree on the poster's point about Doral. He will play more minutes and be valuable against bigger teams who are less spread out. I liked that he wasn't gassed in the 1st half when he came out. He looks like he can play 20 minutes per game when we need it.

 

[Demonwolverine]

Just so we're clear, "mid-acc", meaning 7th/8th place, is between 19th and 36th in the country and a solid 6-7 seed in the NCAA Tournament.

I think we need to define what "mid-acc" means in this capacity. The ACC is absolutely loaded this year.

If we are "mid-acc" by 80's definition in year 5 then I'm fine with that. Means we will have made back to back NCAA Championships and should have a 20 win season. That's the right path.

Agreed. Mid-ACC sounds way worse than "Top 25."

 

[sportsnut]

With Mitch, Austin and Dinos, you have three prominent players who just don't have the quickness necessary to play good team defense, yet 1 or 2 of them have to be on the floor all the time. It is what we (and Manning) are going to have to play with this year so we have to think putside the box some to make adjustments to that fact. I personally have not yet seen Manning show the ability to do this so it will remain a struggle to stop good treams from outscoring us. I do like the fight this team showed when they got down big and did not see any quit in them, that is at least a start on the long road back to ACC respectability. Adding two more good athletes in Brown and Eggleston next year will certainly help but this year will be tough

 

[Deacsfan27]

We had 4 turnovers and they were all steals by Nova. Wonder when the last time we had no "unforced" turnovers was?

 

[Buttermaker]

Our D is never to be even average this year.

Wilbekin plays really hard, but he's small, has little quickness and no lateral ability.

Arians is exactly what we thought he would be. He's a very good shooter, with no conscience (a good thing) and no defensive ability.

Brandon will become a decent defender, but he's trying a little too hard and needs to work on his lateral movement.

Keyshawn is a very good defensive rebounder from the guard position. However, he doesn't move laterally well and isn't very good head-to-head defender.

As opposed to public opinion, Dinos has made great strides defensively. He's still a bit below average, but he's usually in the right place and does get rebounds. This is a leap forward.

Doral can be an excellent defender, but he's not there yet. A lot of this is he needs to get out of his own way.

JC is a better defender than numbers will show. He has to make up for our wings lack of lateral ability. Next year, he'll be a stud on D.

Bryant is our best guard/wing defender by a wide, wide margin. He plays his man well and the passing lanes very well. From time-to-time he tries to do too much.

The reality is we aren't a good defensive team. You can't will a team with a lack of lateral quickness into being a good defensive group. Luckily, we are a really good offensive team.

Which seems to scream for more zone.

 

[RJKarl]

Disagree on a lot of these points, RJ

Arians has proven to be a better defender than expected. Good hands, plays team defense well. He does have good offensive hands. He catches everything. but his D is not good.

Wilbekin is stepping up as an upperclassman. Tired of the hits he takes on here. He is valuable guy. May play less minutes down the road as Chill plays more but he is super valuable to any team with tourney aspirations. You need a 6th or 7th guy to be able to put up 13-15 every 4 or 5 games, and he is not getting embarrassed defensivelyAgain, all talked about was D. I didn't say anything about his offense. He's been solid offensively, but his D is no good. AND As I've said, I love the guy on a team.

Woods is pretty special

Brandon was horrible in this game. Took it on the chin as he basically attmpted to try and out gun the All-American Josh Hart. Huge mistake. He took 3 or 4 just awful shots and we went from 13 down to 18 down in a heartbeat thanks to his selfish play. I don't think he's a selfish player, and I still think he's our 2nd best player, but man, I hope Manning and Chill make him watch this tape over and over. This was How to Get Schooled by an Upperclassman Future Pro 101. We get this game under 8 points at the 5 minute mark, maybe closer if Crawford doesn't go gonzo on us. It's pretty hard to 3-4 "just awful shots" when only take 3 and made one nice drive.

Collins is going to be so much better this year than Thomas was his junior year (his best year, I think).

I love mini-beard. I think he can possibly lead the country this year in points off the bench if he remains there. 15 pts per game I think. He gets junk buckets, knows when to attack weaknesses and lulls in intensity, and is a great 3 point shooter. Please pay attention, I didn't say anything about his offense (which is really solid) ALL I was talking about in my post was DEFENSIVE ability.

Arians looks like Mike Gminski. He is going to look 40 years old in 3 years. Very good player though. Lucky to have him.

My post was completely about D.

As I said our offense will help make up for our D. On that we agree.

 

[DeacsATS]

I refuse to believe that we don't currently have the personnel to at least play average defense. Define average however you want.

I get that there are individuals that may not be the most athletic, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for a number of other successful teams that have similar players in their rotation.

 

[Deacsfan27]

Zone would make sense if we could run it somewhat coherently.

Including Wake, there are 13 ACC teams in the top 34 in offense in the nation. It's not going to get much easier. We've got to figure something out to limit teams from scoring.

 

[tigerswood]

Disagree on a lot of these points, RJ

Arians has proven to be a better defender than expected. Good hands, plays team defense well. He looks like Mike Gminski with the beard and the way he holds his shoulders. He is going to look 40 years old in 3 years. Very good player, lucky to have him.

Wilbekin is stepping up as an upperclassman. Tired of the hits he takes on here. He is valuable guy. May play less minutes down the road as Chill plays more but he is super valuable to any team with tourney aspirations. You need a 6th or 7th guy to be able to put up 13-15 every 4 or 5 games, and he is not getting embarrassed defensively.

Brandon was horrible in this game. Took it on the chin as he basically attmpted to try and out gun the All-American Josh Hart. Huge mistake. He took 3 or 4 just awful shots and we went from 13 down to 18 down in a heartbeat thanks to his selfish play. I don't think he's a selfish player, and I still think he's our 2nd best player, but man, I hope Manning and Chill make him watch this tape over and over. This was How to Get Schooled by an Upperclassman Future Pro 101. We get this game under 8 points at the 5 minute mark, maybe closer if Crawford doesn't go gonzo on us.

Collins is going to be so much better this year than Thomas was his junior year (his best year, I think).

I love mini-beard. I think he can possibly lead the country this year in points off the bench if he remains there. 15 pts per game I think. He gets junk buckets, knows when to attack weaknesses and lulls in intensity, and is a great 3 point shooter.

Agree on the poster's point about Doral. He will play more minutes and be valuable against bigger teams who are less spread out. I liked that he wasn't gassed in the 1st half when he came out. He looks like he can play 20 minutes per game when we need it.

Surely you meant Bryant? He was awful in the 1st half, but at least he remained aggressive. Made some strong drives, a couple "big" shots, and some good passes in the 2nd. Brandon already appears to be our best passer, though.

I do agree that Bryant's "hero ball" antics at the end of games need to stop, though. Keep running the offense and get good looks.

 

[RJKarl]

Which seems to scream for more zone.

It's much harder to rebound out of a zone. You don't have contact with anyone to box out.

Playing a zone requires great lateral quickness. This is our team's biggest weakness on D.

A lot of ACC teams have plus 3 point shooting. This is the shot you get most open.

I think we should throw zones in once in a while as we are doing. I like 1-3-1 with JC on top and Bryant floating on the back or even Keyshawn as the back one.