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Gun Control Laws

TownieDeac said:
How does he lack political capital?

He just earned his second term a month ago.
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You think the House is conservative now, take on the NRA and make blue dogs vote on gun control, and watch how far right it tacks in 2 years.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
No it isn't. Dude, you are a total dumbass when it comes to guns and gun control. Just stop. I like you, man, but you have your head up your ass on this issue in a way that exceeds your usual head-up-the-assedness.
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You're the only who thinks so. Most have agree with my concepts. It's you who no one thinks is rational.
 
The tragedy is relevant to guns, not abortion. If we keep waiting for gun tragedies to stop before we can talk about guns, we'll be waiting forever.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Gentlemen, back when I was growing up, we had one thing like this that happened in 1984 when a guy shot up a McDonald's in California. People were rightfully appalled. That kind of thing just did not happen. Since the 1990s, it has happened with increasing frequency. The question is why has this happened? This country has been gun happy since its founding. We have always had guns but people did not massacre each other, or at least not with the frequency we see it happening at now. What are the reasons for the change? It isn't guns or lack of gun control because guns have been the one constant.

In my opinion, it is the pervasiveness of violence on TV and elsewhere. I don't think there is any question about it. When I was growing up, we had 3 main TV channels, PBS, and some local stations that would later become FOX and WB affiliates. Then we got cable TV and the additional options there for a grand total of about 30 channels. Now you get TV packages where you have 800 channels and tons of options. We have videogames where we celebrate headshots. Now you or I can be subjected to this and not feel the urge to go kill a bunch of people, but some people cannot. What is worse is that when these people commit the kind of shit they do, they are glorified on TV for a couple weeks until the next big story comes along.

I would never propose scaling back or censoring in any way the violent content that we are subjected to, nor would I advocated restrictions on press coverage for these lunatics. Besides the obvious constitutional challenges of such things, I think it is a battle that can't be won. Yet people seem to think that some kind of gun control is going to stop this shit. Short of gun confiscation, nothing is going to stop this kind of shit other than throwing lunatics back in the loony bin like they used to, and we all know that isn't going to happen. We don't ostracize people with mental illness anymore.
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It's not about guns in existence, it's about access to guns. The Internet has brought unprecedented access to information in the world, and it's brought information about obtaining firearms to psychopaths everywhere.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Gentlemen, back when I was growing up, we had one thing like this that happened in 1984 when a guy shot up a McDonald's in California. People were rightfully appalled. That kind of thing just did not happen. Since the 1990s, it has happened with increasing frequency. The question is why has this happened? This country has been gun happy since its founding. We have always had guns but people did not massacre each other, or at least not with the frequency we see it happening at now. What are the reasons for the change? It isn't guns or lack of gun control because guns have been the one constant.

In my opinion, it is the pervasiveness of violence on TV and elsewhere. I don't think there is any question about it. When I was growing up, we had 3 main TV channels, PBS, and some local stations that would later become FOX and WB affiliates. Then we got cable TV and the additional options there for a grand total of about 30 channels. Now you get TV packages where you have 800 channels and tons of options. We have videogames where we celebrate headshots. Now you or I can be subjected to this and not feel the urge to go kill a bunch of people, but some people cannot. What is worse is that when these people commit the kind of shit they do, they are glorified on TV for a couple weeks until the next big story comes along.

I would never propose scaling back or censoring in any way the violent content that we are subjected to, nor would I advocated restrictions on press coverage for these lunatics. Besides the obvious constitutional challenges of such things, I think it is a battle that can't be won. Yet people seem to think that some kind of gun control is going to stop this shit. Short of gun confiscation, nothing is going to stop this kind of shit other than throwing lunatics back in the loony bin like they used to, and we all know that isn't going to happen. We don't ostracize people with mental illness anymore.
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BTW, there are way more guns out there now too.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Gun manufacturers are moral monsters. I have no beef with responsible gun owners, but people who make fortunes off of designing more efficient ways to massacre groups of people should bear guilt. Let's not pretend that we are designing guns to combat the efficiency of our enemies weaponry, because arms manufactures are arming soldiers to combat the terrorists they arm and arming criminals to kill the cops they arm. At the heart of the gun debate is greed.

From a Constitutional perspective, I would bet (hope) the framers would be more appalled by the efficiency with which we can take life than with our willingness to erode the 2nd Amendment.
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Drama queen much? Good grief.
 
Also, other European countries have similarly violent media influence, but less access to guns. They have less violent crime and gun-related fatalities as well.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
It's not about guns in existence, it's about access to guns. The Internet has brought unprecedented access to information in the world, and it's brought information about obtaining firearms to psychopaths everywhere.
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You say this based on what? The guy buying ammunition in bulk before the Colorado shooting? You used to do that through the ads in the back of gun magazines. It has always been possible to obtain surplus ammo at bargain prices. And ammo is, of course, different from the firearms that shoot it.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
You don't see any moral objection to designing a tool to kill hundreds of people more efficiently for profit? Do you have any objection to manufacturing heroine for profit?
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Heroin, not heroine. And the two are not comparable. It is a tool that is designed for law enforcement and military purposes. The same cops and military that keep us safe require instruments of death to do their job so, no, I don't have any moral objection to that.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Your concepts are completely engrained in a fabricated reality.
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There's nothing "fabricated" about most of America wanting to end sales of guns by private sellers at gun shows.

There's nothing "fabricated" that most of America supports limiting the size of magazines. If you can't stop an intruder with 15 shots, you're very likely going to be dead anyway.

There's nothing "fabricated" that most don't think assault weapons should be sold to citizens.

There's nothing "fabricated" about the fact most Americans oppose the ability of individuals to buy as many guns at one time as they as they can afford.



What is "fabricated" is that what you believe in is close to the mainstream in America.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
You think the House is conservative now, take on the NRA and make blue dogs vote on gun control, and watch how far right it tacks in 2 years.
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There are only 14 Blue Dogs. Or 6 fewer Blue Dogs who could lose seats in 2014 than children who were murdered in Newtown yesterday.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
You say this based on what? The guy buying ammunition in bulk before the Colorado shooting? You used to do that through the ads in the back of gun magazines. It has always been possible to obtain surplus ammo at bargain prices. And ammo is, of course, different from the firearms that shoot it.
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If you don't believe that the Internet makes it easier to find out how and where to get firearms than 30 years ago, I don't know what to tell you.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Heroin, not heroine. And the two are not comparable. It is a tool that is designed for law enforcement and military purposes. The same cops and military that keep us safe require instruments of death to do their job so, no, I don't have any moral objection to that.
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If only gun ownership/purchase were limited to these groups, I might agree.

As to your pervasive "violence in culture/media" concept, I don't necessarily disagree. Yesterday, I came home from work and just laid down on the couch for a while and popped on the TV.

A few things hit me right away. The major networks were all covering the Connecticut story. It was all they were talking about. I didn't see a single story about gun violence in Chicago, Oakland, or a number of cities that also had double-digit homicides via gun violence. I haven't seen hardly anything about drone attacks killing dozens of civilians all the time. What I saw in between the Connecticut story was a really poorly timed Call Of Duty commercial. These two guys are playing in their living room, when the walls of their apartment fall and they're in a war zone. Bullets flying around with rockets, grenades, fire all over the place. I know it's a video game, you know it's a video game, we all do. But that's juxtaposing shooting people on a TV screen with real life. And it disgusted me.

Look, I'm very much against censorship. We have Puritanical views about sexuality and swearing, but we show violence and crime on all but children's networks. We're a violent nation with a violent past, and a Constitutional protection for citizens to bear arms that has been mostly unchecked by contemporary civilization changes. I just think we need a massive parading change. And you can't just continue to shoot down people with ideas about reducing gun violence by insinuating that people who don't own guns can't comment. This should be a national discourse.

We need to address social issues that lead to urban crime. We need to address mental health and gun safety issues that lead to mass killings. We need to stop trying to point blame away from the weapons used to murder our fellow man.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
In my opinion, it is the pervasiveness of violence on TV and elsewhere. I don't think there is any question about it.
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There is a huge question about it. Research has consistently shown that the most consistent factor in high gun death areas is easy availability of guns. EVERYTHING else held equal. They have violent TV shows and movies in every other developed country, but this is the only one with absurdly high rates of gun death. You just have your head in the sand on this one.
 
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