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Ongoing NC GOP debacle thread

JGDeac said:
$16,000 contributed annually by the state toward a teacher's retirement plan. Holy shit. I bet the health contributions are much better than the private sector too. Leads me to believe that teachers are not undercompensated, at least not materially. If teachers want a larger paycheck, they need to lobby for a 6% defined contribution retirement plan and a high deductible health savings plan with the savings funnelled into salary.
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Do NC teachers still get to retire at a very early age and get hired back for a lucrative double helping of cash?
 
BiffTannen said:
You realize that teachers are leaving NC to take the exact same job in other states because the pay is better, right?
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You realize I didn't say anything about the pay relative to other states right? My only point is that it sounds like teachers, in general, are compensated adequately. I had no idea the pension contributions were that high.
 
tjcmd said:
Do NC teachers still get to retire at a very early age and get hired back for a lucrative double helping of cash?
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It sounds like they can with a full pension if they've put their 30 years in. I have two uncles in PA who worked in the public sector (one teacher) and are doing just that.
 
i think the teachers are making a mistake pounding the compensation drum so hard. plenty of people in NC make less than teachers. My friends growing up in a very rural area of NC thought I must be rich because both my parents were teachers.

They should be focusing on the fact that classrooms have no equipment, no new textbooks, no pencils, no anything, that class sizes are rising, that the buildings the kids go to school in were built in the Depression and have 30 years of deferred maintenance, etc. etc. All the focus on teacher comp risks a backlash.
 
Deacon923 said:
i think the teachers are making a mistake pounding the compensation drum so hard. plenty of people in NC make less than teachers. My friends growing up in a very rural area of NC thought I must be rich because both my parents were teachers.

They should be focusing on the fact that classrooms have no equipment, no new textbooks, no pencils, no anything, that class sizes are rising, that the buildings the kids go to school in were built in the Depression and have 30 years of deferred maintenance, etc. etc. All the focus on teacher comp risks a backlash.
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I have to disagree. The compensation is a serious issue. It only makes sense to be a teacher if your s/o is a much more serious bread winner. Teaching is a profession and they should be able to have a decent lifestyle.
 
Oh, I think teachers ought to be paid (and more importantly, treated) like professionals. I just think the continued emphasis on teacher comp may ultimately not be a good political move. It plays right into the hands of the GOP talking points about "greedy teachers' unions" and so forth.
 
Deacon923 said:
Oh, I think teachers ought to be paid (and more importantly, treated) like professionals. I just think the continued emphasis on teacher comp may ultimately not be a good political move. It plays right into the hands of the GOP talking points about "greedy teachers' unions" and so forth.
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There is no good political move, though. The mainstream education social movement is and has always been against teacher interests. Whether new "reform" now or community control then.

It's a problem that teachers and teacher unions have always had. Starting shit\striking has always been more effective tactic-wise than public interest framing.
 
Deacon923 said:
Oh, I think teachers ought to be paid (and more importantly, treated) like professionals. I just think the continued emphasis on teacher comp may ultimately not be a good political move. It plays right into the hands of the GOP talking points about "greedy teachers' unions" and so forth.
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Republicans calling anybody "greedy" is a poor talking point. They're still pro-capitalism, right?
 
Deacon923 said:
Oh, I think teachers ought to be paid (and more importantly, treated) like professionals. I just think the continued emphasis on teacher comp may ultimately not be a good political move. It plays right into the hands of the GOP talking points about "greedy teachers' unions" and so forth.
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Possible, though I think it is important to keep the drumbeat of low pay going, no matter the political climate. Though reasonable minds can disagree on that.
 
JGDeac said:
You realize I didn't say anything about the pay relative to other states right? My only point is that it sounds like teachers, in general, are compensated adequately. I had no idea the pension contributions were that high.
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Do you understand marketplace fundamentals? If you want to continue to employ decent teachers your wage rate needs to be competitive with other employers. Otherwise, you have lower quality employees overall and quality suffers. #dense
 
Cool hashtag internet stud. I'll say it again: I was commenting on teachers in general. Not on NC teachers.
 
JGDeac said:
Cool hashtag internet stud. I'll say it again: I was commenting on teachers in general. Not on NC teachers.
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I assumed you were talking about the pension contributions mentioned in the email.
 
WFFaithful said:
Why?
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Because I had no idea that teachers received $16,000+ in annual pension contributions from the state. If NC undercompensates their teachers then other states must be paying more. It speaks to the comp model for the industry as a whole. I think it is common knowledge that teachers receive good benefits, but that is much higher than I would have expected.
 
JGDeac said:
Because I had no idea that teachers received $16,000+ in annual pension contributions from the state. If NC undercompensates their teachers then other states must be paying more. It speaks to the comp model for the industry as a whole. I think it is common knowledge that teachers receive good benefits, but that is much higher than I would have expected.
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Wait, have you actually fact checked this? Are you basing all of this on this hypothetical point from the conservative legislator?

You expect a defined contribution retirement plan that will guarantee you about $35,000 per year for life after working 30 years even if you live to be 104 years old. Your employer will need to put about $16,000 per year into your retirement plan each year combined with your $2,000 contribution for the next 30 years to achieve this benefit.
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You realize teachers don't ACTUALLY get $16,000 deposited into an IRA or 401K each year from the state, right?
 
JGDeac said:
Because I had no idea that teachers received $16,000+ in annual pension contributions from the state. If NC undercompensates their teachers then other states must be paying more. It speaks to the comp model for the industry as a whole. I think it is common knowledge that teachers receive good benefits, but that is much higher than I would have expected.
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According to this the state only contributes 13.2%.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Wait, have you actually fact checked this? Are you basing all of this on this hypothetical point from the conservative legislator?



You realize teachers don't ACTUALLY get $16,000 deposited into an IRA or 401K each year from the state, right?
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Why don't you fact check it? Sounds like he would be in a good position to know the number and I doubt he would make it up on a mass email to other legislators. Feel free to prove him wrong.

Yes I realize how defined pension benefits work and that the cash doesn't go to a retirement account. NC probably faces a pension shortfall despite the huge contribution. It's a benefit and it is compensation and it is cash that goes from the state to teachers. There is more to compensation than just salary. Like I said, if teachers want a bigger paycheck they should lobby for a 401k equivalent instead of a pension that allows them to retire in their 50s on full salary.
 
JGDeac said:
Why don't you fact check it? Sounds like he would be in a good position to know the number and I doubt he would make it up on a mass email to other legislators. Feel free to prove him wrong.

Yes I realize how defined pension benefits work and that the cash doesn't go to a retirement account. NC probably faces a pension shortfall despite the huge contribution. It's a benefit and it is compensation and it is cash that goes from the state to teachers. There is more to compensation than just salary. Like I said, if teachers want a bigger paycheck they should lobby for a 401k equivalent instead of a pension that allows them to retire in their 50s on full salary.
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13.12% contribution from the state. If the average teacher makes $45,000, that's more like 6,000 than 16,000. Also, they were over 100% funded until 2008 when the market went to hell. ONW's link doesn't show anything more recent than 2010 but I'd imagine they've made up their shortfall with the market recovery.
 
My understanding is that states have to make additional annual contributions to top off pension funds. I can't find any good info but it sounds like that $16,000 is majorly inflated and I stand corrected.
 
That $16,000/year thing is so ludicrous, I can't even fathom where/how he came up with that.
 
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