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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

mersk862 said:
Last time something like this happened was 1957. It sounds like they don't plan on cutting the rough in between the two tournaments, with lengths around 3.5 inches this week and 4+ next week. Slower green speeds and some pin placements never seen at Muirfield will also happen this weekend.
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Makes sense. If you slow down the green speed, it opens up for more varied pin placements.

Also like Sleepy's idea of graduating the rough further down. Another thing you can do is the old Mike Davis approach to US Opens and have 2-3 yards of lighter rough after the 1st cut and then really heavy rough after that.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
I think that's true to an extent and wholesale changes don't have to be made to all venues. As you stated, some courses just don't favor the long ball and probably don't need much change. If the distance trend keeps going though, many will if you want to keep them a real test. Can you imagine Bryson at St. Andrews right now? Heck, at least half the par 4's would be drivable especially under hard and fast conditions, combine that with the par 3's and there's only a handful of holes that can't be reached off the tee. The 2 par 5's would probably play as shortish par 4's. I sure don't want to see guys doing that in a PGA tournament, much less a major.
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St. Andrews, and other British Open Links courses for that matter, are a bad argument. I've driven the 9th on the Old Course, a 347 yard par four, from the white tees with a three wood. I'm 5'11" and weigh 180 lbs. And I was 52 years old when I did that. The ball goes forever on the ground on Scottish links courses and always has.

Funny thing is though, here are the last six British Open winners at St. Andrews:

- 2015 Zach Johnson -15
- 2010 Louis Oosthuuizen -16
- 2014 Tiger -14
- 2000 Tiger -19
- 1995 Daly -6
- 1994 Ballesteros -12

There have been a lot technology advancements in the last twenty five years, but those advancements don't seem to be reflected in the scores.
 
cville deac said:
Also like Sleepy's idea of graduating the rough further down. Another thing you can do is the old Mike Davis approach to US Opens and have 2-3 yards of lighter rough after the 1st cut and then really heavy rough after that.
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I like that. I also wouldn't mind rough getting longer the farther from the tee. Not only does it make it more risky to just send a bomb from the tee, but it also makes for some tougher shots from around the green. I've seen several pros make a lot of mistakes on short chips since the re-start.
 
Shorty said:
St. Andrews, and other British Open Links courses for that matter, are a bad argument. I've driven the 9th on the Old Course, a 347 yard par four, from the white tees with a three wood. I'm 5'11" and weigh 180 lbs. And I was 52 years old when I did that. The ball goes forever on the ground on Scottish links courses and always has.

Funny thing is though, here are the last six British Open winners at St. Andrews:

- 2015 Zach Johnson -15
- 2010 Louis Oosthuuizen -16
- 2014 Tiger -14
- 2000 Tiger -19
- 1995 Daly -6
- 1994 Ballesteros -12

There have been a lot technology advancements in the last twenty five years, but those advancements don't seem to be reflected in the scores.
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Yeah, but that is the extreme and drives Bryson is hitting 360 over here, might go 425/450 or more over there under the right conditions. Heck, I think Bubba hit some over 400 in 2015. Depends on where the game goes from here, if Bryson stops having a lot of success then other guys won't be as likely to follow his lead, if he does than other guys will take the approach. Look at a guy like Matt Wolfe, he already hits it almost as far as Bryson 2.0, he might decide to bulk up and start hitting it 400. Going to be real interesting to see where it goes.
 
BTW, I don't think Wolfe's swing is sustainable, especially his trigger move. I like guys that develop their own peculiar swing; but his maybe the ugliest I have seen. Still it works him now.
 
mebanedeac said:
BTW, I don't think Wolfe's swing is sustainable, especially his trigger move. I like guys that develop their own peculiar swing; but his maybe the ugliest I have seen. Still it works him now.
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Well, I don't know. His swing is somewhat similar to Furyk, but with a lot more power. I think Furyk has such nice tempo it makes his swing look more pleasing to the eye than Wolfe's.
 
mebanedeac said:
BTW, I don't think Wolfe's swing is sustainable, especially his trigger move. I like guys that develop their own peculiar swing; but his maybe the ugliest I have seen. Still it works him now.
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I think he's fine with that for now at least. Take a MC if that means some top 5s and wins are sprinkled in there.
 
Still prettier than Bryson... His swing and putting stroke are so ugly I can't help but root against him.
 
Augusta needs to take the lead on "Bryson proofing" and reverse their Tiger proofing model that every other tour course has adopted. Making holes longer actually increases the advantage for long hitters as they're back to hitting 8 irons instead of wedges, but the shorter hitters go from 8 irons to 5 irons. That's dramatically skewing the value of power over accuracy.

Reversing hole lengthening and rethinking hole design is probably the only way to rebalance the sport short of radical equipment changes. Plant trees closer to the fairway with increasing density further from the tee, add creeks or lakes lining fairways instead of intersecting fairways, and grow the tallest rough around the greens. This still preserves the reward for distance if you're able to keep it straight, but better punishes bombers without accuracy. Adding pain for missing the green might be a little targeted at Bryson, but there's not enough to differentiate the average wedge players from the mediocre. Now if Bryson keeps bombing them down the middle and figures out his wedge play, he really should be winning every week and this model rightly wouldn't impact him.

Now how you do this without impacting the ability to pack each hole with fans - got me. Works under COVID restrictions though.
 
DCDeac said:
Still prettier than Bryson... His swing and putting stroke are so ugly I can't help but root against him.
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I don't think I've ever seen anyone that could actually putt a lick, look so stiff and uncomfortable over the putt. It's working for him, but it's not easy to watch.
 
JonasDeac said:
Augusta needs to take the lead on "Bryson proofing" and reverse their Tiger proofing model that every other tour course has adopted. Making holes longer actually increases the advantage for long hitters as they're back to hitting 8 irons instead of wedges, but the shorter hitters go from 8 irons to 5 irons. That's dramatically skewing the value of power over accuracy.

Reversing hole lengthening and rethinking hole design is probably the only way to rebalance the sport short of radical equipment changes. Plant trees closer to the fairway with increasing density further from the tee, add creeks or lakes lining fairways instead of intersecting fairways, and grow the tallest rough around the greens. This still preserves the reward for distance if you're able to keep it straight, but better punishes bombers without accuracy. Adding pain for missing the green might be a little targeted at Bryson, but there's not enough to differentiate the average wedge players from the mediocre. Now if Bryson keeps bombing them down the middle and figures out his wedge play, he really should be winning every week and this model rightly wouldn't impact him.

Now how you do this without impacting the ability to pack each hole with fans - got me. Works under COVID restrictions though.
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Before worrying about "Bryson proofing" Augusta or any other course on which a major is played, how about waiting until he wins one or at least contends in any major tournament?

DeChambeau has played in 10 majors so far, he has missed the cut 4 times, and has yet to finish in the top 10 in any major. DeChambeau has won a single PGA tournament (last week) since November 2018. Really weird to me the concerns about altering course designs because of a player that has won a single tournament in his last 34 starts, and that one tournament was one of the lesser events on the PGA Tour (the Rocket Mortgage Classic) on a course uniquely suited for a long-hitter against the weakest field since the PGA restarted. Also, for all the focus on his driving last week, DeChambeau was first in the field in putting last week, that was as big a reason for winning as his drives.
 
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Pilchard said:
Before worrying about "Bryson proofing" Augusta or any other course on which a major is played, how about waiting until he wins one or at least contends in any major tournament?

DeChambeau has played in 10 majors so far, he has missed the cut 4 times, and has yet to finish in the top 10 in any major. DeChambeau has won a single PGA tournament (last week) since November 2018. Really weird to me the concerns about altering course designs because of a player that has won a single tournament in his last 34 starts, and that one tournament was one of the lesser events on the PGA Tour (the Rocket Mortgage Classic) on a course uniquely suited for a long-hitter against the weakest field since the PGA restarted. Also, for all the focus on his driving last week, DeChambeau was first in the field in putting last week, that was as big a reason for winning as his drives.
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Totally agree we shouldn't be panicking about Bryson yet and wasn't focused on the Masters specifically, just assuming they drive the trends all other tournaments would adopt. I was using Bryson as the figurehead of the next generation of longer hitters, you can throw DJ, Rory, Wolff, etc in there too. Call it "Tiger Proofing v2" if you want, just a better way to equalize power and accuracy.

I would love nothing more to watch Bryson not play the weekend in November.
 
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Bryson is not in the field this week? What the hell are the talking heads going to slobber over this weekend?
 
JonasDeac said:
Augusta needs to take the lead on "Bryson proofing" and reverse their Tiger proofing model that every other tour course has adopted. Making holes longer actually increases the advantage for long hitters as they're back to hitting 8 irons instead of wedges, but the shorter hitters go from 8 irons to 5 irons. That's dramatically skewing the value of power over accuracy.

Reversing hole lengthening and rethinking hole design is probably the only way to rebalance the sport short of radical equipment changes. Plant trees closer to the fairway with increasing density further from the tee, add creeks or lakes lining fairways instead of intersecting fairways, and grow the tallest rough around the greens. This still preserves the reward for distance if you're able to keep it straight, but better punishes bombers without accuracy. Adding pain for missing the green might be a little targeted at Bryson, but there's not enough to differentiate the average wedge players from the mediocre. Now if Bryson keeps bombing them down the middle and figures out his wedge play, he really should be winning every week and this model rightly wouldn't impact him.

Now how you do this without impacting the ability to pack each hole with fans - got me. Works under COVID restrictions though.
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Why would any club agree to take on the expense of these things just because the PGA Tour comes there once a year? Add lakes and creeks? Are you kidding?
 
Some very bad takes on this thread. To be clear, nobody wants to watch guys hit irons off the tee for "accuracy." That is extremely boring to watch. Driving is the most exciting part of the game and fans love to see guys mash the ball farther than the average golfer could ever dream of hitting the ball. There is a reason crowds follow the big hitters and not Webb/Kisner/ZJ.

You don't make Steph Curry shoot from closer to the basket, you don't make Aroldis Chapman throw less than 100 mph, and you shouldn't target limit the most exciting players on tour from hitting the ball as far as they can.

If other players start swinging harder to hit farther, that will be a positive in terms of ratings for golf.
 
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Just turned on the WorkDay tournament. It’s obvious they have toned down the look of the course to contrast it with next week. Not saying it’s not in good shape, but for the Memorial tournament it always looks so pristine.
 
TAG1615 said:
Some very bad takes on this thread. To be clear, nobody wants to watch guys hit irons off the tee for "accuracy." That is extremely boring to watch. Driving is the most exciting part of the game and fans love to see guys mash the ball farther than the average golfer could ever dream of hitting the ball. There is a reason crowds follow the big hitters and not Webb/Kisner/ZJ.

You don't make Steph Curry shoot from closer to the basket, you don't make Aroldis Chapman throw less than 100 mph, and you shouldn't target limit the most exciting players on tour from hitting the ball as far as they can.

If other players start swinging harder to hit farther, that will be a positive in terms of ratings for golf.
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I dunno. I feel like approach shots are more interesting than drives. Seeing if they stuff it, hit a bunker, water, etc.
 
deacondamo said:
I dunno. I feel like approach shots are more interesting than drives. Seeing if they stuff it, hit a bunker, water, etc.
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Agree - there's a lot more drama watching a guy hit it within inches coming out from 150 yards than just bombing it off the tee.

It's the approach and putting that wins and loses tournaments.

After all, I can't really think of any drives that are memorable for me. But late drama around the green? 21 years later and we all still remember Van de Velde for one reason and one reason only.
 
deacondamo said:
I dunno. I feel like approach shots are more interesting than drives. Seeing if they stuff it, hit a bunker, water, etc.
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Fair enough, fans also enjoy close approach shots (generally from a wedge) as opposed to watching guy after guy hit mid irons onto the middle of the green and 2 putting.

Personally, I love watching all types of players and courses. I just think the best type of golf for tv ratings is big drives and wedges into greens, so I do not think the pga will or should try to alter courses to change that.
 
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