• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Should Manning be canned at the end of the season?

Shit canning manning?

  • Yes

    Votes: 53 27.5%

  • No

    Votes: 130 67.4%

  • Hire Kenpom & the 7 Dwarves

    Votes: 10 5.2%
  • Total voters
    193
  • Poll closed .
RacerDeac said:
I reject the idea that XX results and XX ranking next year = Manning is good enough. We have years of evidence that he's not. It would take massive improvements all over the board for him to suddenly become a good enough head coach that we shouldn't be looking for a better replacement. I suppose if he somehow takes next year's team, turns it into a sum greater than its parts and leads us to the Final 4, I'd have to rethink things a bit, but there's very little that's going to convince me that Manning is suddenly going to bud into an excellent coach sometime during his 16th year on the job, 7th as a head and 5th at Wake.
Click to expand...

Lol, you realize if he does this, he'll win ACC and likely national COY, right? They set you up, and you fell right into the trap. Your statement looks really dumb.

I agree that one above average year isn't going to convince me the Manning is the man for the job, but it will at least placate me into feeling that he deserves another year. That's where I am.
 
I'm not exactly sure how I was setup. The statement seems absurd precisely because that's what it would take. If in the offseason, Manning somehow flips a switch and turns from bad coach to a COY capable of turning next year's team into a Final 4 team, he'll have earned the job.

I reject the idea that getting the team ranked and winning a game or two in the tournament (i.e. something Wake fans once considered somewhat normal), in spite of continued awful game and team management, somehow earns him a right to be paid millions to continue leading the team.
 
Last edited:
Not sure how Manning could ever measure up to that standard. Not only does he have to win, he now has to win in a manner that pleases individual members of the fanbase. Eesh, good luck with that one.
 
CantStandYa said:
And to answer your question, there's little that can happen next year, short of a deep run and ACC dominance, that would convince me that Manning is capable.

The ability to sustain success over multiple years is more indicative than a single season (i.e. climate vs. weather). The strength lies in the ability to succeed in spite of variables - e.g. early departures, transfers, etc - rather than using them as an excuse for constant mediocrity. If we saw two straight years of ACC competitiveness (.500 record minimum) and NCAAT appearances - and it sure seems like Manning will have that chance - then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

This is what he must do in 18-19 and 19-20. I don't think that even the strongest Manning supporter would state otherwise. He must produce consistent success. All I have ever really seen argued (outside of maybe CharlotteDeac - who seems to be a huge fan of Manning), is that Manning deserves more patience as a coach due to the steaming pile of crap he inherited. Every coach gets a year or two of grace to figure things out. I think Manning deserves about 3-4. Come next year, he will need to produce or hit the road.
 
RacerDeac said:
I'm not exactly sure how I was setup. The statement seems absurd precisely because that's what it would take. If in the offseason, Manning somehow flips a switch and turns from bad coach to a COY capable of turning next year's team into a Final 4 team, he'll have earned the job.

I reject the idea that getting the team ranked and winning a game or two in the tournament (i.e. something Wake fans once considered somewhat normal), in spite of continued awful game and team management, somehow earns him a right to be paid millions to continue leading the team.
Click to expand...

So nothing short of something we have accomplished once in the history of our program, and have never done in the modern era of basketball will convince you Danny is a good coach. Seems reasonable.
 
DeacsATS said:
I'd kill for the mediocrity that Tom Crean had at IU. Hell of a rebuild, in my opinion.

2009: 209KP
2010: 194
2011: 82
2012: 9
2013: 3
2014: 63
2015: 48
2016: 11
2017: 44
2018: 81 (w/ Archie Miller)
Click to expand...

He did a rebuild, then fell on his face. IU used to be up there with the blue bloods.
 
RJKarl said:
He did a rebuild, then fell on his face. IU used to be up there with the blue bloods.
Click to expand...

People overrate Indiana. It hasn't been a great program in a long, long time.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Is it possible that Manning learns how to coach next year? I suppose it's possible that a light goes off in his head. In the meantime, we've been a testing ground for OTJ training, which we shouldn't be.

I'd like to see a team that plays some semblance of defense and has some kind of identity. As boring as Odom's teams were (and often overrated defensively), they at least had a system in place so that you knew when you lost X player, Y would be able to step in and competently fill X's shoes, even if he wasn't X. We could win because his teams could always shoot the three ball and games were usually lower scoring and thus closer. This is opposed to Manning's teams who play no D, playground O, and run out of gas in the last 10 minutes of games because they're too busy wasting energy from their lack of discipline on both sides of the ball.

How this team performs next year will be contingent on the usual things like player development, coaching, and the strength of the ACC overall. Manning could meet all those benchmarks and field a borderline top 25 team and still not be a competent coach because his team continues to do the same stupid shit. Or he could not meet those expectations but put out a team that is consistently competitive. plays hard for 40 minutes, and plays competent defense.

My guess is it will be more of the same shit we've seen so far, but obviously (or hopefully) a better season than this one has been.
Click to expand...

So a lot of handwaiving, talk of defense and metrics that are impossible to measure objectively like not doing stupid shit, but no commitment to results that would indicate Manning is/can be a successful coach at Wake.

You have met my expectations.
 
CantStandYa said:
And to answer your question, there's little that can happen next year, short of a deep run and ACC dominance, that would convince me that Manning is capable.

The ability to sustain success over multiple years is more indicative than a single season (i.e. climate vs. weather). The strength lies in the ability to succeed in spite of variables - e.g. early departures, transfers, etc - rather than using them as an excuse for constant mediocrity. If we saw two straight years of ACC competitiveness (.500 record minimum) and NCAAT appearances - and it sure seems like Manning will have that chance - then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

RacerDeac said:
I reject the idea that XX results and XX ranking next year = Manning is good enough. We have years of evidence that he's not. It would take massive improvements all over the board for him to suddenly become a good enough head coach that we shouldn't be looking for a better replacement. I suppose if he somehow takes next year's team, turns it into a sum greater than its parts and leads us to the Final 4, I'd have to rethink things a bit, but there's very little that's going to convince me that Manning has suddenly turned into an excellent coach sometime during his 16th year on the job, 7th as a head and 5th at Wake.
Click to expand...

So that’s one Elite 8 (is that deep enough) and one Final Four
 
Wrangor said:
Not sure how Manning could ever measure up to that standard. Not only does he have to win, he now has to win in a manner that pleases individual members of the fanbase. Eesh, good luck with that one.
Click to expand...

This. Subjective criteria for a head coach allows for a range of opinions from Buzz-in to Roy Williams is a bad coach.
 
Wrangor said:
Not sure how Manning could ever measure up to that standard. Not only does he have to win, he now has to win in a manner that pleases individual members of the fanbase. Eesh, good luck with that one.
Click to expand...

Yes, he needs to win and to win big to prove that he's no longer what years of evidence say he is. Just getting us back to respectable doesn't prove much, other than that he happens to be the coach at Wake Forest, in the ACC, where achieving respectablilty is relatively easy. Outside of proving he's not who we've known him to be to this point, I'd much rather be paying the large sums of money we are currently paying Manning to someone with better past results and more upside. We've given him four, and next year will be five, years and $10+ million to "learn on the job"...Wake has been kind to him. He hasn't learned enough. We're on our way to year five and people are still saying they think he "will be" a good coach. I said the same things in Y1...in Y5, I expect him to be a good coach. Simply getting us into the tournament doesn't prove he's a good coach...it may prove it, but it's way too easy to accomplish for it to be absolute. Outside of some sort of massive improvement that proves he's an excellent coach next season, yes, it's time to try something else.

WFcatamount22 said:
So nothing short of something we have accomplished once in the history of our program, and have never done in the modern era of basketball will convince you Danny is a good coach. Seems reasonable.
Click to expand...

See above.

RChildress107 said:
This. Subjective criteria for a head coach allows for a range of opinions from Buzz-in to Roy Williams is a bad coach.
Click to expand...

I gave you non-subjective criteria. I just disagree that your non-subjective criteria are proof that he has earned another year. You say reasonable, I say potato. What you deem reasonable expectations is minimal and should be easily achievable. It's not enough, given the subjective things we've all discussed regarding Manning the last 4 seasons. We can do better, and we should, period.
 
Last edited:
Wrangor said:
This is what he must do in 18-19 and 19-20. I don't think that even the strongest Manning supporter would state otherwise. He must produce consistent success. All I have ever really seen argued (outside of maybe CharlotteDeac - who seems to be a huge fan of Manning), is that Manning deserves more patience as a coach due to the steaming pile of crap he inherited. Every coach gets a year or two of grace to figure things out. I think Manning deserves about 3-4. Come next year, he will need to produce or hit the road.
Click to expand...

Nope. Right in line with you and every other person that doesn’t act like the sky is falling. He has next year to produce, if not he’s gone. I even said the 2019 recruiting class being subpar combined with a good season would have me feeling pretty bad about our future with him. I get the rep of being a huge manning fan because I tell people how stupid some of their specific critiques are. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

I want to be an 8 seed or better next year (could be lower if we win 1/2 games in the tourney) and have a good incoming class for 2019 or I’ll think Manning needs to go. My stance really isn’t something absurd like the people all in their feelings seem to suggest it is. Pretty moderate, actually.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Nope. Right in line with you and every other person that doesn’t act like the sky is falling. He has next year to produce, if not he’s gone. I even said the 2019 recruiting class being subpar combined with a good season would have me feeling pretty bad about our future with him. I get the rep of being a huge manning fan because I tell people how stupid some of their specific critiques are. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

I want to be an 8 seed or better next year (could be lower if we win 1/2 games in the tourney) and have a good incoming class for 2019 or I’ll think Manning needs to go. My stance really isn’t something absurd like the people all in their feelings seem to suggest it is. Pretty moderate, actually.
Click to expand...

This is where I'm at as well.
 
RChildress107 said:
For reference, to convince me I’m wrong about Manning he would have to fail to meet most of the benchmarks below next year:

KP: 40
Overall: 20 wins
ACC: 9 wins
ACCT: Friday appearance
NCAAT: Top 8 seed

Anyone else bitching about supposed “shifting goalposts” want to commit themselves?
Click to expand...

KP: Doesn't matter in the end
Overall: At least 22 wins total
ACC: At least 10 wins
ACCT: At least 1 win
NCAAT: Get to round of 32

Anything less and he has not met program expectations over the first 5 years.
 
CantStandYa said:
And to answer your question, there's little that can happen next year, short of a deep run and ACC dominance, that would convince me that Manning is capable.

The ability to sustain success over multiple years is more indicative than a single season (i.e. climate vs. weather). The strength lies in the ability to succeed in spite of variables - e.g. early departures, transfers, etc - rather than using them as an excuse for constant mediocrity. If we saw two straight years of ACC competitiveness (.500 record minimum) and NCAAT appearances - and it sure seems like Manning will have that chance - then I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

RacerDeac said:
I reject the idea that XX results and XX ranking next year = Manning is good enough. We have years of evidence that he's not. It would take massive improvements all over the board for him to suddenly become a good enough head coach that we shouldn't be looking for a better replacement. I suppose if he somehow takes next year's team, turns it into a sum greater than its parts and leads us to the Final 4, I'd have to rethink things a bit, but there's very little that's going to convince me that Manning has suddenly turned into an excellent coach sometime during his 16th year on the job, 7th as a head and 5th at Wake.
Click to expand...

RacerDeac said:
Yes, he needs to win and to win big to prove that he's no longer what years of evidence say he is. Just getting us back to respectable doesn't prove much, other than that he happens to be the coach at Wake Forest, in the ACC, where achieving respectablilty is relatively easy. Outside of proving he's not who we've known him to be to this point, I'd much rather be paying the large sums of money we are currently paying Manning to someone with better past results and more upside. We've given him four, and next year will be five, years and $10+ million to "learn on the job"...Wake has been kind to him. He hasn't learned enough. We're on our way to year five and people are still saying they think he "will be" a good coach. I said the same things in Y1...in Y5, I expect him to be a good coach. Simply getting us into the tournament doesn't prove he's a good coach...it may prove it, but it's way too easy to accomplish for it to be absolute. Outside of some sort of massive improvement that proves he's an excellent coach next season, yes, it's time to try something else.



See above.



I gave you non-subjective criteria. I just disagree that your non-subjective criteria are proof that he has earned another year. You say reasonable, I say potato. What you deem reasonable expectations is minimal and should be easily achievable. It's not enough, given the subjective things we've all discussed regarding Manning the last 4 seasons. We can do better, and we should, period.
Click to expand...

So your position is that if Manning doesn’t make the Final Four next year we should move on?

Being a top 40 team, winning record in the ACC, ACC semi finalist, and a top 8 seed is minimal? Only 7 Wake teams since 1984 have done all of those in one season.
 
Give him next year. If we don't have winning record (overall and conference)--bye. No, that's not good enough as an end point, but a minimum to stay on, IMO.

Until then, support him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top