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Doctors are paid way too much in America

CHDeac said:
I think the real issue isnt what they are paid but how they are paid. We pay per unit and dont tie to an actual outcome. In fact, our structure incents poor outcomes. The more you do, the more you make. There are models out there that pay the best docs more because they actually costs us less when you factor in the total cost of care.

The other real enemies, imho, other than our insatiable desire for care on demand, are the device makers, pharma and large hospital systems. Of everyone in HC, whose prices are the most regulated? Insurers by far. In 9 months, pretty much every rate and profits are capped. We will continue to see trend so that red herring will be put to rest. Insurers have their sins but excessive profits arent one of them...
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Is there a way to do outcome based pay without doctors flocking away from poorer, more unhealthy communities?
 
Healthcare and education are a lot alike. The frontline people (teachers, primary care docs, PAs) are underpaid. The specialists and administrators are way overpaid (CEO of wfu baptist made 2.5 mil last year). And the suppliers (textbook companies, the companies that supply all the school testing crap, medical device and big pharma) are making stupid crazy money and have lots of lobbyists to keep it that way. Neither field properly uses technology to increase efficiency, only buys more and increases costs.

Why are we surprised that in both areas we are massively overpaying for shitty results?
 
Deacon923 said:
Healthcare and education are a lot alike. The frontline people (teachers, primary care docs, PAs) are underpaid. The specialists and administrators are way overpaid (CEO of wfu baptist made 2.5 mil last year). And the suppliers (textbook companies, the companies that supply all the school testing crap, medical device and big pharma) are making stupid crazy money and have lots of lobbyists to keep it that way. Neither field properly uses technology to increase efficiency, only buys more and increases costs.

Why are we surprised that in both areas we are massively overpaying for shitty results?
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Great comparison.
 
No bkf? I expected him to be on this thread like stink on shit.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Is there a way to do outcome based pay without doctors flocking away from poorer, more unhealthy communities?
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Sure and it may just be a great place to start. Small changes here can pay huge dividends. But the model needs to change. Imagine a model where docs get paid more b/c their diabetics (or whatever) are well managed? What if the doc texted you on a regular basis to do XYZ, etc. Or called? Or used technology to monitor ABC.

Instead, we get a model that says file as many codes as you can and get paid more.
 
Deacon923 said:
Healthcare and education are a lot alike. The frontline people (teachers, primary care docs, PAs) are underpaid. The specialists and administrators are way overpaid (CEO of wfu baptist made 2.5 mil last year). And the suppliers (textbook companies, the companies that supply all the school testing crap, medical device and big pharma) are making stupid crazy money and have lots of lobbyists to keep it that way. Neither field properly uses technology to increase efficiency, only buys more and increases costs.

Why are we surprised that in both areas we are massively overpaying for shitty results?
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this sounds like every industry/every company in the US
 
buckets said:
this sounds like every industry/every company in the US
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yeah, but underpaid front line workers are not such a big deal when their job is making widgets vs. saving lives and educating children (largely on the taxpayer dime, in both cases).

Oh and also, pretty much every industry in the US other than healthcare, education and government has used technology to massively increase efficiency and lower costs.
 
quadrupledeac said:
The amount of ignorance on this thread is astounding. Carry on.
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QFT on so many levels.

I'm a surgical specialist. The only people I know making boy band money are dental specialists. I don't know any medical oncologists making 900k. See the link below for averages. Medicine is hard work with super high stakes. Entry cost both financially and otherwise is very high. I enjoy what I do but the level of ignorance from most people reeks of jealousy with little real idea of what it means to be a physician. Talk to anyone working in the trenches with physicians and ask them if we deserve what we get paid. Plus if it's such a great gig then why doesn't everyone do it? There are A LOT of better ways to make money.

http://www.profilesdatabase.com/resources/2011-2012-physician-salary-survey
 
I see what you're saying, BacktoBack, but that's a list of a lot of people who make damn good money. Any list of median entry salaries that's all 6 figures with many in the 200K and 300K isn't going to generate much sympathy.

That said, I don't know why this thread is focusing on doctors and not the people who truly game the system.

What makes healthcare and education special is that there will always be demand and a steady supply of customers who want the best service they can buy.
 
PhDeac said:
I see what you're saying, BacktoBack, but that's a list of a lot of people who make damn good money. Any list of median entry salaries that's all 6 figures with many in the 200K and 300K isn't going to generate much sympathy.

That said, I don't know why this thread is focusing on doctors and not the people who truly game the system.

What makes healthcare and education special is that there will always be demand and a steady supply of customers who want the best service they can buy.
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it gets sympathy from me. you can't afford an s-class on that salary.
 
BacktoBack said:
QFT on so many levels.

I'm a surgical specialist. The only people I know making boy band money are dental specialists. I don't know any medical oncologists making 900k. See the link below for averages. Medicine is hard work with super high stakes. Entry cost both financially and otherwise is very high. I enjoy what I do but the level of ignorance from most people reeks of jealousy with little real idea of what it means to be a physician. Talk to anyone working in the trenches with physicians and ask them if we deserve what we get paid. Plus if it's such a great gig then why doesn't everyone do it? There are A LOT of better ways to make money.

http://www.profilesdatabase.com/resources/2011-2012-physician-salary-survey
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gotta love the douchey jealousy comment.
 
PhDeac said:
I see what you're saying, BacktoBack, but that's a list of a lot of people who make damn good money. Any list of median entry salaries that's all 6 figures with many in the 200K and 300K isn't going to generate much sympathy.

That said, I don't know why this thread is focusing on doctors and not the people who truly game the system.

What makes healthcare and education special is that there will always be demand and a steady supply of customers who want the best service they can buy.
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I hear you man and you know I respect your course of study and work. I would never act like it's not a lot of money. But, I'm 35 years old and just started my first real job out of residency. I owe a house payment every month in student loan payments. I've missed more events than i can count because of my work. I spent and still spend nights getting pages all night and then being awake taking care of people and working the next day on a few hours sleep. I spent 6 years of my life working 70 + hours a week. I live in constant fear of being sued. So overall my job isn't bad. But it's not a big check without huge sacrifice.
 
BacktoBack said:
I hear you man and you know I respect your course of study and work. I would never act like it's not a lot of money. But, I'm 35 years old and just started my first real job out of residency. I owe a house payment every month in student loan payments. I've missed more events than i can count because of my work. I spent and still spend nights getting pages all night and then being awake taking care of people and working the next day on a few hours sleep. I spent 6 years of my life working 70 + hours a week. I live in constant fear of being sued. So overall my job isn't bad. But it's not a big check without huge sacrifice.
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BacktoBack said:
Haterz gonna hate.

Most people complain that doctors make too much money. It reeks of jealousy. How else would you describe it?
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you sound like a whiny bitch. why would i be jealous of what you describe? did you read the article? did you note any of the economic arguments that took place? doesn't seem like it. seems like you wondered in here and got your panties in a wad.
 
deacphan said:
you sound like a whiny bitch. why would i be jealous of what you describe? did you read the article? did you note any of the economic arguments that took place? doesn't seem like it. seems like you wondered in here and got your panties in a wad.
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Im not whining. I like my job. If you wanna hate on me thats all good too. Doesn't change anything. You just should be informed about reality before you hate. But I'm not going to stand around and read a lot of bs misinformation about my profession being overpaid when viewed in a vacuum.
 
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