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Doctors are paid way too much in America

Bronson Pinchot

Sam Cronin
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http://www.slate.com/articles/busin...dicare_is_cheaper_than_private_insurance.html

Steven Brill’s 24,000-word magnum opus in Time on health care billing practices in the United States is remarkably easy to summarize: American health care costs a lot because the prices Americans pay for health care services are very high. And hospitals charge those high prices for the same reason any other business would—because they can.
It’s easy to see why a health care provider is almost uniquely well-positioned to bilk you. If you don’t get treatment, you or someone you love might die. It’s a high-pressure emotional situation that makes it extremely difficult to bargain, comparison shop, or just decide to cut back. Most of us, fortunately, get to outsource most of that bargaining to our insurance companies. Cold-blooded executives, not stressed-out patients, cut the deals that determine how much actually gets paid. This means that the real price of health care services is driven largely by the purchasing clout of the buyer. An uninsured individual gets totally screwed. A big insurance company can drive a harder bargain and get a better deal. But as Brill shows, the best deal of all goes to the biggest insurer around: the federal government, whose Medicare program for senior citizens is such a large purchaser that it and it alone can drive a truly hard bargain and squeeze provider profit margins to the bone.
The policy upshot of this seems clear enough. Rather than cutting Medicare as is currently all the rage in deficit-hawk circles, we ought to be expanding it and enlarging the cheapest and most cost-effective part of the American health care system.
But of course only left-wing crazies think that, so though Brill concedes that this is precisely the reason that more-statist foreign health care systems have much lower costs than ours, he rejects the idea out of hand.
But Brill’s reason for rejecting the idea is interesting. He doesn’t care a fig for the hospitals, which are the villains of his story. Rather he rejects Medicare expansion because if Medicare expanded, “no doctor could hope for anything approaching the income he or she deserves (and that will make future doctors want to practice) if 100% of their patients yielded anything close to the low rates Medicare pays.” It’s true that many American doctors do believe that they would be crushed if they were paid only Medicare rates. They insist they’re hard-pressed as it is, barely getting by, and practically treat these Medicare cases as acts of charity. There’s no way they could swallow those reimbursement rates without the whole system collapsing.
But that’s not remotely true. The last time the OECD looked at this (PDF), they found that, adjusted for local purchasing power, America has the highest-paid general practitioners in the world. And our specialists make more than specialists in every other country except the Netherlands. What’s even more striking, as the Washington Post’s Sarah Kliff observed last week, these highly paid doctors don’t buy us more doctors’ visits. Canada has about 25 percent more doctors’ consultations per capita than we do, and the average rich country has 50 percent more. This doctor compensation gap is hardly the only issue in overpriced American health care—overpriced medical equipment, pharmaceuticals, prescription drugs, and administrative overhead are all problems—but it’s a huge deal.
Doctors aren’t as politically attractive a target as insurance companies, hospital administrators, or big pharma, but there’s no rational basis for leaving their interests unscathed when tackling unduly expensive medicine.
If doctors earned less money, fewer people would want to be doctors. We could offset some of that impact by helping doctors out with medical malpractice reform and more government funding for medical school tuition. But a shortage of people wanting to enter the medical pipeline is the last thing we should be worrying about. As it stands, medical school is getting harder to get into (continuing a longtime trend) even as it gets harder for medical school graduates to find residency slots. What’s more, in the 18 states where lesser-paid nurse practitioners are allowed to do primary care without a doctor’s supervision, their treatment is just as good in terms of health outcomes and better in terms of patient satisfaction. Any shortage of primary caregivers, in other words, is about bad rules limiting the number of people who can practice, not a lack of monetary incentives. We need more residencies and more scope for nurses to work unsupervised, not higher-paid doctors.
When it comes to the federal budget, Medicare is a problem. An uncapped commitment to finance the health care needs of elderly Americans is a big challenge for an aging country. But when it comes to the question of health care costs overall, Medicare is the solution. Its vast bargaining clout lets it get much better prices than any private insurer, and we should be relying on it more to pay our bills, not less.
 
HAHAHHAHAA

Blame rising healthcare costs on the Doctors NOW!!!!

The ignorance of that fucking twat is unreal. Doctors in private practices are small-business owners and have costs like every other small business. They are being squeezed worse than anyone else with Obamacare! Medicare reimburses have been declining for the past 15 years and hit the threshold about 3 years ago that even seeing a Medicare patient is like breaking even when a Doctor's overhead (staff, equipment, etc.) are factored into the patient visit.

If you want to cut healthcare costs go after the insurance companies, the hospitals that are designated as "non-profit" but are making a ton of money and hide it through expansion/building projects, reform medical malpractice legislation, etc etc etc.

And stop giving tax write-offs to Pharmaceuticals that advertise their medicines!!!!
 
Stop paying the Docs top money, half of the best minds won't even try for medical school.
 
Here's the author. What a taint. And a biased writer too.

BIO_yglesias-matt-2011.jpg

Matthew Yglesias
Matthew Yglesias is Slate's business and economics correspondent. Before joining the magazine he worked for ThinkProgress, the Atlantic, TPM Media, and the American Prospect. His first book, Heads in the Sand, was published in 2008. His second, The Rent Is Too Damn High, was published in March.
 
But when it comes to the question of health care costs overall, Medicare is the solution. Its vast bargaining clout lets it get much better prices than any private insurer, and we should be relying on it more to pay our bills, not less.

This is the Walmart model, right? Have so much purchasing power that you can drive supply costs down.

Ironically, I'm almost sure that the writer is anti-Walmart and its practice of strong arming their suppliers.
 
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what's your dick doctor roommate think of this?

i think there's something to be said for ultimate salary being commensurate with education costs to get there, but it is boggling at times to realize some specialists are pulling 7 figures. i would assume research/discovery plays into that, though.

(btw, i'm saying this without reading the article)
 
Funny... I just had a doc's appt today and was asking my doc about the Time magazine article. He railed against the medical supply companies. Looking at my bill for some CPAP shit, it's easy to see why. They charged my insurance nearly 5k for a CPAP machine that I can find online with no effort for a bit over $600. They charge $750 for a $150 humidifier. And it goes all down the line for all the filters, masks, etc... Ridiculous.

He also is not happy with the inefficiencies in Medicare. He feels like they're trying to squeeze doctors when they should be squeezing medical supply folks, if anybody, as well as cleaning up their own inefficiencies.
 
This is the Walmart model, right? Have so much purchasing power that you can drive supply costs down.

Ironically, I almost sure that the writer is anti-Walmart and its practice of strong arming their suppliers.

Not really

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/11/26/walmart_wages_they_could_be_higher.html

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/09/16/can_wal_mart_save_the_indian_economy_.html

http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/2005/02/walmart_in_the_.html
 
Funny... I just had a doc's appt today and was asking my doc about the Time magazine article. He railed against the medical supply companies. Looking at my bill for some CPAP shit, it's easy to see why. They charged my insurance nearly 5k for a CPAP machine that I can find online with no effort for a bit over $600. They charge $750 for a $150 humidifier. And it goes all down the line for all the filters, masks, etc... Ridiculous.

He also is not happy with the inefficiencies in Medicare. He feels like they're trying to squeeze doctors when they should be squeezing medical supply folks, if anybody, as well as cleaning up their own inefficiencies.

My dad had an oxygen machine for the last 14 months of his life. Cost of the machine was less than 2 "rental" payments by the insurance company
 
Stop paying the Docs top money, half of the best minds won't even try for medical school.

Good. Have them go into research where their brilliant mind is used to its full potential. Medicine will always attract top minds but if more go into things like biomedical research instead if practicing, medicine will be much better off on the whole. MD/PhD programs need to be expanded. They provide tuition reimbursement for medical school and generate researchers with clinical and basic science training. They are uniquely qualified to bring bench research to drug development. My colleagues with such degrees have been indispensible in helping me tailor my basic science study of immune pathologies to the point it can help real people in a hospital.
 
of course my question to him was why insurance companies would pay such a ridiculous price. He didn't know...just theorized that they're probably all in bed together.
 
I agree that we need more, "lower quality" healthcare
it costs 10X as much to be 2% more effective in healthcare.
Insurance companies should start shipping people off to other countries for procedures
 

Wow, he's an interesting dude.

At least he's consistent in his support for stamping out the little guy, whether it's public (Medicare), private (Walmart) or Union labor. Ultimately, he just seems to have a bigger is better theory.
 
Wow, he's an interesting dude.

At least he's consistent in his support for stamping out the little guy, whether it's public (Medicare), private (Walmart) or Union labor. Ultimately, he just seems to have a bigger is better theory.

If economies of scale and/or market power apply, bigger is better.
 
Good. Have them go into research where their brilliant mind is used to its full potential. Medicine will always attract top minds but if more go into things like biomedical research instead if practicing, medicine will be much better off on the whole. MD/PhD programs need to be expanded. They provide tuition reimbursement for medical school and generate researchers with clinical and basic science training. They are uniquely qualified to bring bench research to drug development. My colleagues with such degrees have been indispensible in helping me tailor my basic science study of immune pathologies to the point it can help real people in a hospital.

That's what I want, worse doctors performing surgery. I work in the spinal medical device field and already know a lot of bad stories about bad doctors doing horrible things. The older surgeons all freely admit that doctors in Europe are much better than doctors in the USA, but you think that the best potential surgeons will want to go that route if the pay sucks?
 
If economies of scale and/or market power apply, bigger is better.

To an extent...until they become monopolies and there are no competitive market forces to keep them in check and passing those savings on. Sure, bigger is almost always better for the entity, but not necessarily always better for the customers of the entity. And then we get into "too big to fail" issues where even poorly performing entities must be propped up because the alternative is disaster.
 
By the way, I don't endorse the article, but found the perspective interesting, especially having previously lived with 4 med students.

I don't think doctors are especially over-compensated. I think we could do to lower the costs of entry to the field so we wouldn't have to incentivize it so highly with pay, and could instead afford to hire more doctors that didn't have to work so many crazy hours. I do know that my one roommate has always complained that he wanted to go into family medicine, but in spite of the fact that he was taking out no loans for undergrad or med school, the starting salary of 80k was far too low for a resident. I know people like my dad, who spent more years than many MDs did in school to get his PhD and then go through a fellowship, took about ten years of working at Wake before he made that much, and he has worked 75-90 hour weeks his whole life on the research side.

I don't know if on the whole doctors are paid too much here. I think it may be more of a symptom than a cause of the escalating cost of healthcare here, with other factors like malpractice insurance, pharmaceuticals, med supply companies, and not enough emphasis on health education. Still find some of his arguments compelling.
 
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