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Hypothetical: Who Replaces Bz at the end of the season?

Someone else posted here, but a point of reference for us should be Baylor basketball. For us, it isn't life and death.. At Baylor, a player was killed They are banned from non-conference games 2005-2006, but they made NCAA's in 2008.

Was Wake Forest really worse than Baylor, such that in year 4 we might make the NCAA's?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_Bears_basketball
 
I fail to see much of a difference between insiders saying that Dino wanted to recruit the kind of players he thought he needed to win and Ron having none of it (read one and done type players and or JJ/Teague types) and then 6 months to a year later saying culture change. Is there that big of difference between the two??? Culture change seems like a two word broad explanation of what insiders are saying. Ron wanted us to be Butler-esque instead of Texas-esque and instead we are neither right now.

Am I missing something?
 
So I put together a schedule until mid Feb for 9 coaches I like a lot. If simply looking at head coaches who have experience coaching private schools, I included Archie Miller (HC, Dayton), Brett Reed (HC, Lehigh), Mike Longergan (HC, George Washington), Bryce Drew (HC, Valparaiso), and Dave Paulsen (HC, Bucknell). I also included a few names based on characteristics that Wellman may find attractive: Ben Jacobson (HC, Northern Iowa - Reached Sweet 16 in 2010), Leon Rice (HC, Boise State - Led BSU to 1st ever NCAA Tournament), Michael White (HC, LA Tech - One of the top young coaches according to many lists), and Pat Kelsey (HC, Winthrop). I included all games vs. opponents ranked in Kenpom's top 150.

Kelsey (38), Miller (35), Drew (39), and White (36) might be too young for Wellman since they're in their 30's, as most coaches hired during the Wellman era have been late 40's (at least). FWIW: Longergan (47), Paulsen (49), Reed (41), Jacobson (43), Rice (48ish?).

Some of the guys I did not include: Randy Bennett (recruiting violations), Dave Rose (cancer), Derek Kellogg (UMass HC, played for UMass), John Giannini (La Salle HC, 51), Stew Morrill (Utah St HC, 61), Andy Toole (Robert Morris HC, 4-7 this year), Tim Cluess (Iona HC), Steve Prohm (Murray St HC), Greg McDermott (Creighton HC, bombed at Iowa State). Obviously others, too.

Names to consider: Donnie Tyndall (Southern Miss HC), Steve Pikiell (Stony Brook HC).

I'll consistently update this list for results, as well as adding or removing coaches based on performance.

FYI - I suck at the internet and formatting.

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jaybone said:
I fail to see much of a difference between insiders saying that Dino wanted to recruit the kind of players he thought he needed to win and Ron having none of it (read one and done type players and or JJ/Teague types) and then 6 months to a year later saying culture change. Is there that big of difference between the two??? Culture change seems like a two word broad explanation of what insiders are saying. Ron wanted us to be Butler-esque instead of Texas-esque and instead we are neither right now.

Am I missing something?
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You do realize JJ, Rouq, and Teague all stayed for two years, right? Worth pointing out, too, that Alec Burks, Buzz's only legit NBA player, also left school after two years. In fact, I just looked at guys we recruited and it's not clear to me that we even recruited that many guys who were even threats to be one-and-dones during Skip's final years or during Dino's tenure. With the exception of AT&T, Skip's last few years and end of Dino's tenure actually mirror what Buzz is doing now on the recruiting trail (though both locked up better commits, by the numbers). In fact, Rouq was about as close as we came to a one-and-done in close to 10 years. Woods, Walker, Ari, JJ, Teague, etc. were expected to stay in school for awhile, by almost all reports at the time. Same goes for CP3. Teague and JJ, especially, were flying under the radar.

And, you also realize that insiders have said that the call for culture change was bullshit, right? I'll take their word for it.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Florida State finished 93rd in the RPI after losing their 1st round NIT game. They were surely in the 80s.

9-9 in a major conference and an ACC tourney win certainly got them in.
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I don't think that number reflects the NIT loss (to La Tech which was the second highest RPI in the NIT at 51). They were 93rd when picked. FSU had a quirky schedule/results last year though. They had to overcome losses to Auburn (250 RPI) and South Alabama (160) which is why the two calcs might not match well. Still about right for a NIT team.
 
I am pretty sure it does. The NCAA RPI site is current as of 10/14/13 and has them almost the same spot.
 
jaybone said:
I fail to see much of a difference between insiders saying that Dino wanted to recruit the kind of players he thought he needed to win and Ron having none of it (read one and done type players and or JJ/Teague types) and then 6 months to a year later saying culture change. Is there that big of difference between the two??? Culture change seems like a two word broad explanation of what insiders are saying. Ron wanted us to be Butler-esque instead of Texas-esque and instead we are neither right now.

Am I missing something?
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I think both of those have been interpreted incorrectly because everyone focuses on the players as the problem and not Dino. It has never been about one and done players, it was about controlling the program in the "right" way. Control the program and the player "type" is immaterial just like with Grobe. The 4 year player thing was never about what was wrong with the program, it was the future vision of the program's foundation....as you say Butler-esque which had both.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I am pretty sure it does. The NCAA RPI site is current as of 10/14/13 and has them almost the same spot.
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I guess so, but they played a team with a much higher RPI and 50 other teams lost, many to worse RPI teams.
 
jaybone said:
I fail to see much of a difference between insiders saying that Dino wanted to recruit the kind of players he thought he needed to win and Ron having none of it (read one and done type players and or JJ/Teague types) and then 6 months to a year later saying culture change. Is there that big of difference between the two??? Culture change seems like a two word broad explanation of what insiders are saying. Ron wanted us to be Butler-esque instead of Texas-esque and instead we are neither right now.

Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

We also just retired the number if a guy who stayed at Wake just as long as JJ, Rouq, and Teague.
And, unlike JJ and Teague , that guy actually projected as an early entry candidate the second he committed to Wake. So we knew what we were getting.
So how objectionable is having one/two and dones, exactly?
 
Strickland33 said:
You do realize JJ, Rouq, and Teague all stayed for two years, right? Worth pointing out, too, that Alec Burks, Buzz's only legit NBA player, also left school after two years. In fact, I just looked at guys we recruited and it's not clear to me that we even recruited that many guys who were even threats to be one-and-dones during Skip's final years or during Dino's tenure. With the exception of AT&T, Skip's last few years and end of Dino's tenure actually mirror what Buzz is doing now on the recruiting trail (though both locked up better commits, by the numbers). In fact, Rouq was about as close as we came to a one-and-done in close to 10 years. Woods, Walker, Ari, JJ, Teague, etc. were expected to stay in school for awhile, by almost all reports at the time. Same goes for CP3. Teague and JJ, especially, were flying under the radar.

And, you also realize that insiders have said that the call for culture change was bullshit, right? I'll take their word for it.
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From your reply it doesn't seem you read my post. But if your post was simply intended to drip w animosity - I got that part. Thanks. My blood pressure went up for sure like 2 points for a good 15 seconds so well done!

I still don't find the two narratives very far apart. Insiders also said Ron and Dino disagreed o the type of players needed to win. I simply don't find that very removed from culture change. It's a language argument not about believing one side or the other

Are you still raw about me believing recruiting analysts blow? I think you are. Come let me give you a big ol hug.
 
bobknightfan said:
VaDeac said:
We also just retired the number if a guy who stayed at Wake just as long as JJ, Rouq, and Teague.
And, unlike JJ and Teague , that guy actually projected as an early entry candidate the second he committed to Wake. So we knew what we were getting.
So how objectionable is having one/two and dones, exactly?[/QUOTE]

Well, everyone is entitled to his own opinion regarding the matter....I mean, the rest of you are, so I would assume that I am as well. Personally, I don't want any 1 or 2 & done players, even if it was a LeBron James. I wish that every player who wasn't going to stay at WF for at least three years had gone somewhere else. I prefer to cheer for a college team that is still comprised of student-athletes. (And I realize that this is a minority opinion here.)
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Probably the only minority you approve of when it comes to basketball
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bobknightfan said:
I wish that every player who wasn't going to stay at WF for at least three years had gone somewhere else. I prefer to cheer for a college team that is still comprised of student-athletes. (And I realize that this is a minority opinion here.)
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Worst argument ever. There are plenty of kids who leave early who are still student-athletes.

If a brilliant kid starts his own company and drops out of school after this sophomore year to pursue building the company for 3-4 years, does it mean he wasn't really a student while he was at school?
 
bobknightfan said:
I wasn't making an argument....only stating an opinion. You are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to mine.
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An opinion is an argument for the most part. That said, your opinion was that you wished players would stay at least 3 years, and then you argued that failing to do so means they aren't really student-athletes. I didn't question your opinion on what you'd like to see kids do. I questioned your argument. Trust me, I don't want your opinions.
 
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So what's your answer to this question, bkf?

If a brilliant kid starts his own company and drops out of school after this sophomore year to pursue building the company for 3-4 years, does it mean he wasn't really a student while he was at school?
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Will have a hard time catching NIT fever. It wasn't that long ago when a NIT bid would get our coach almost on the hot seat. Now we are supposed to pop champagne or something. The AD's mind control agents have done a great job in lowering expectations for our program.
 
The last two basketball coaches Wellman fired/let go made the NCAA Tournament.

But we are supposed to be happy about the NIT.
 
Far be it for me to keep you from making everything about yourself, bkf, but I was actually talking to jaybone, not you. See that's why I quoted HIS post.

Also notable that my phone autocorrects jaybone and makes it Gaybone. I heart you Steve Jobs.
 
Apparently it's about raking in millions for TV while playing in an almost empty arena. Where is the virtue in this situation?
 
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