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Hypothetical: Who Replaces Bz at the end of the season?

bobknightfan said:
This is not just about wins & losses. Some people seem to have a hard time getting that thru their heads.
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Then please enlighten us what college sports is all about? Last time I checked, they were playing for championships in a multi-billion dollar industry. I will be so happy the old guard fades away. It's ALL about wins and losses. No one gives a shit about playing hard and hustling. This isn't rec league. It's the fucking ACC.
 
DCDeac said:
Biggest difference between your posts and mine - I've repeatedly said there are valid arguments to be had here on both sides and that my opinions/info could very well be wrong, but that I think the overall argument is fair.
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And you've repeatedly been wrong. An argument's validity is not a matter of opinion. Your argument is invalid because the set of facts you propose, even if true, do not lead to the conclusion you propose.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh but I've been listening to the same illogical arguments for the past 3 years and I firmly believe that they are at least part of the reason [Redacted] is still our basketball coach.
 
bobknightfan said:
RChildress107 said:
I have no idea what Charlie would have done...and neither do you. I only know that I knew him personally when we were both at Wake. We had many extended conversations about many things in the old snack shop in Reynolda Hall. I always found him to be a fine, down-to-earth, clear-thinking person for whom I valued his friendship and had the utmost respect.
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A lot of people on the boards can say the same things about some of the guys you claim aren't student athletes.
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bobknightfan said:
RChildress107 said:
Which guys are you referring to? Other than James Johnson, I don't remember ever specifically naming any player as not being a student-athlete.
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Really? That would be like me saying all bob knight fans are idiots and then claiming that I didn't just call you an idiot.

If you'll scroll up the page you will see where you said that dropping out of school to play basketball has nothing to do with being a student. That would include CP3, James, Teague, AFA, and Rodney Rogers (you never saw him play of course).
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You come to college to prepare yourself for a future. I guarantee that almost any business student who was offered a guaranteed $1-5M/year to work at his dream company after a year or two would take the offer.

It's ludicrous to say bball players shouldn't leave early to live their dreams. It doesn't make them anything other than wise.
 
RChildress107 said:
And you've repeatedly been wrong. An argument's validity is not a matter of opinion. Your argument is invalid because the set of facts you propose, even if true, do not lead to the conclusion you propose.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh but I've been listening to the same illogical arguments for the past 3 years and I firmly believe that they are at least part of the reason [Redacted] is still our basketball coach.
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Gotcha. There are no valid arguments to any side other than yours.

You must have absolutely hated Clawson discussing culture as an absolute necessity in program building, and listing it as one of his primary goals at Wake Forest. You also must have both played for Dino and simultaneously worked directly for the Athletic Department to label yourself the end-all be-all judge of the validity of these arguments.

I really enjoy the posters so insecure and desperate in their irrational fandom that they feel the need to berate and constantly argue against - NOT people who support [Redacted] - but people who argue for his firing but recognize at least some reasoning throughout his tenure here, ill-fated though it may have been. Nope, that's hypocrisy... He's an idiot, Wellman's an idiot, they can barely tie their shoes and have no business anywhere near any Wake Forest sports program.

Yeah, that's the rational, valid side of the argument.

It boils down to:
"[Redacted] was a bad hire and he hasn't gotten it done here. He should be fired short of an NCAA appearance this year. I understand part of what Wellman was going for and our program had some legitimate issues, but it's been a failure regardless."

"Bullshit. Wellman had no clue what he was doing, he's a liar and a fraud, [Redacted] is a garbage failure in life and anyone who doesn't completely agree is a moron who should have been fired after the first year."

Note that some posters in the 2nd group were predicting a 13 win season, that Wellman would be content with Grobe, that he would screw up the subsequent hire, etc...
 
Let's get back to the topic at hand: Bz's replacement. wake20 I think you should add Southern Illinois' Barry Hinson to the list.

 
DCDeac said:
Gotcha. There are no valid arguments to any side other than yours.

You must have absolutely hated Clawson discussing culture as an absolute necessity in program building, and listing it as one of his primary goals at Wake Forest. You also must have both played for Dino and simultaneously worked directly for the Athletic Department to label yourself the end-all be-all judge of the validity of these arguments.

I really enjoy the posters so insecure and desperate in their irrational fandom that they feel the need to berate and constantly argue against - NOT people who support [Redacted] - but people who argue for his firing but recognize at least some reasoning throughout his tenure here, ill-fated though it may have been. Nope, that's hypocrisy... He's an idiot, Wellman's an idiot, they can barely tie their shoes and have no business anywhere near any Wake Forest sports program.

Yeah, that's the rational, valid side of the argument.

It boils down to:
"[Redacted] was a bad hire and he hasn't gotten it done here. He should be fired short of an NCAA appearance this year. I understand part of what Wellman was going for and our program had some legitimate issues, but it's been a failure regardless."

"Bullshit. Wellman had no clue what he was doing, he's a liar and a fraud, [Redacted] is a garbage failure in life and anyone who doesn't completely agree is a moron who should have been fired after the first year."

Note that some posters in the 2nd group were predicting a 13 win season, that Wellman would be content with Grobe, that he would screw up the subsequent hire, etc...
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I'm not going to rehash the entire argument but i will make a few points.

1. I don't think Wellman's an idiot.
2. I do think that your stated views on what Wellman was thinking when he fired Dino and then hired [Redacted] can only logically lead to the conclusion that Wellman is incompetent.
3. I also think that the facts as stated by Wellman can only logically lead to the conclusion that he is a liar or incompetent. I believe he is a liar.

And like I said the validity of an argument is not an opinion. It's formulaic. Your facts either logically lead to your conclusion or they don't. The facts, as you have stated them, do not lead to the conclusion, as you have stated it.
 
bobknightfan said:
I've never said they shouldn't leave early, rj.....only that I don't personally want to invest my support in teams with players who are doing so.

Do you know of someone on this board who has stated that these players should not leave early? .....because it wasn't me.
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You must hate college basketball then. The brand of basketball with winning teams full of 4 year players is long gone. Move on.
 
Ok, then to point 2. If Wellman is incompetent, how did the Clawson hire happen?

Or at the very least, how is any argument that states Wellman might not be incompetent completely invalid when pretty much the entire world thinks it was a great hire?

Finally, you're choosing which facts to listen to and which to ignore in your validity argument. If I think Wellman hired [Redacted] with rebuilding in mind and didn't say that to the public because his job is to paint Wake in the best light possible, you simply cling to the words Wellman spoke, call him a liar, and label him incompetent and any opposing arguments invalid.

You're just believing what you want to believe by focusing on the things you weigh as important. And that's fine. But I'm not the one saying alternative arguments have no validity. You have zero basis to say that because you have no damn idea what happened or what was said behind closed doors during the hire.
 
DG3 said:
You must hate college basketball then. The brand of basketball with winning teams full of 4 year players is long gone. Move on.
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Where have you been? He does hate college basketball and frequently says as much.

And, yes, that means his opinion isn't really relevant. He also isn't very informed about the Wake Forest basketball program, which is why he buys Wellman's bullshit.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
Let's get back to the topic at hand: Bz's replacement. wake20 I think you should add Southern Illinois' Barry Hinson to the list.

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As much as Ron loves a guy who throws his players under the bus, I'm going to hold off until he beats more than just Stetson and S&T (?).
 
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As much is I love this dispute over $100, what do you guys think about Memphis coach Josh Pastner?
 
bobknightfan said:
I've never said they shouldn't leave early, rj.....only that I don't personally want to invest my support in teams with players who are doing so.

Do you know of someone on this board who has stated that these players should not leave early? .....because it wasn't me.
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I can't think of a player (or many grads at all) who have supported WFU more than Chris Paul. He has donated money, time and himself to help the university.
 
DCDeac said:
Ok, then to point 2. If Wellman is incompetent, how did the Clawson hire happen?

Or at the very least, how is any argument that states Wellman might not be incompetent completely invalid when pretty much the entire world thinks it was a great hire?

Finally, you're choosing which facts to listen to and which to ignore in your validity argument. If I think Wellman hired [Redacted] with rebuilding in mind and didn't say that to the public because his job is to paint Wake in the best light possible, you simply cling to the words Wellman spoke, call him a liar, and label him incompetent and any opposing arguments invalid.

You're just believing what you want to believe by focusing on the things you weigh as important. And that's fine. But I'm not the one saying alternative arguments have no validity. You have zero basis to say that because you have no damn idea what happened or what was said behind closed doors during the hire.
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See point 3. I do not accept your view of events as true and do not think Wellman is incompetent. However even if I did accept your view of events as true and thus logically thought Wellman was incompetent that wouldn't preclude him making a potentially good hire. A broken clock is right twice a day.

I am saying that if you think Wellman hired [Redacted] to clean house then you must conclude that he is incompetent. [Redacted] did not "clean house" in an effective or economical fashion. He took several steps entirely inconsistent with cleaning house. He did this because either 1. Wellman told him to, thus Wellman is incompetent, or 2. Wellman let him do it, thus Wellman is incompetent.

I am not saying alternative arguments lack validity. I am saying that your alternative argument lacks validity. My basis for saying that is not on any special knowledge of what happened or was said behind closed doors. My basis is simply your statements. Validity has nothing to do with facts.
 
That is inane.

You're the one inserting the term "clean house" to support this nonsense. And the rest is simply a hollow argument based on rhetoric. Start listing your facts and drop the philosophy 101 shit.
 
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