The Myth Behind Public School Failure

[PhDeac]

Yep. We are way more in agreement than I thought. I would like to see teachers become 9-5, 12 month a year professionals and part of their duties as professionals would be to apply for federal grants to improve their schools. USDOE sets aside funds for specific funding programs (low-income neighborhoods, urban education, rural education, afterschool educational programs, etc) to meet specific educational goals and teachers would apply for them.

 

[Wrangor]

Yep. We are way more in agreement than I thought. I would like to see teachers become 9-5, 12 month a year professionals and part of their duties as professionals would be to apply for federal grants to improve their schools. USDOE sets aside funds for specific funding programs (low-income neighborhoods, urban education, rural education, afterschool educational programs, etc) to meet specific educational goals and teachers would apply for them.

I dig it.

 

[bigdoublezero]

A major focus on state control plays right into the hands of the private education companies, FWIW.

 

[DiegoTiger]

Yep. We are way more in agreement than I thought. I would like to see teachers become 9-5, 12 month a year professionals and part of their duties as professionals would be to apply for federal grants to improve their schools. USDOE sets aside funds for specific funding programs (low-income neighborhoods, urban education, rural education, afterschool educational programs, etc) to meet specific educational goals and teachers would apply for them.

Almost every teacher I know would be in favor of something like this.

 

[Shorty]

A major focus on state control plays right into the hands of the private education companies, FWIW.

Education is almost entirely a state and local responsibility now.

 

[Deacon923]

A major focus on state control plays right into the hands of the private education companies, FWIW.

money is going to corrupt politicians no matter what level they are at. the higher up they are, the bigger money flows to them. since apparently bribing politicians is "free speech" protected by the Constitution in this country, all we can do is try to make sure it's as transparent as possible, and as parents call them on it when we see what they are doing is not for our kids but for their campaign contributions.

 

[Wrangor]

In my opinion NCLB is a far worse legacy for Bush to leave than the Iraq war. Of all his mistakes, it is the one I hold him most culpable. It is his ACA in my opinion. A well intentioned, completely unwise piece of legislation that has set that has had an immeasurable negative impact on our nation's educational system.

 

[PhDeac]

Education is almost entirely a state and local responsibility now.

You mean the 45 states and local districts that bowed to federal pressure and are instituting Common Core in order to appeal to NCLB and Race to the Top?

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

I don't disagree with that. We need to deprivatize public education and reduce administrative bloat.

How do you reduce administrative bloat by deprivatizing something? Is your point that true public schools (i.e. non-charter) have less administrative bloat than private schools? I do not think that is the case at all.

 

[PhDeac]

That's not my point.

 

[bigdoublezero]

money is going to corrupt politicians no matter what level they are at. the higher up they are, the bigger money flows to them. since apparently bribing politicians is "free speech" protected by the Constitution in this country, all we can do is try to make sure it's as transparent as possible, and as parents call them on it when we see what they are doing is not for our kids but for their campaign contributions.

Probably true, but that's not my point. Catering to 50 individualized curricula is quite lucrative.

 

[Deacon923]

there's nothing inherently wrong with charter schools. What is wrong is how politicians often stack the deck to make them more successful (or look more successful) than non-charter public schools, in order to further demonize the non-charter schools.

For example, they should be held to the exact same accountability standards as public schools. They should be made to share the load of educating disabled kids (not necessarily by enrolling them, but the amount they are paid per pupil should be less than the cost per pupil that the public schools pay which is skewed up by the requirement to educate disabled kids). They must pay their fair share of the cost of school bus transportation, which is a necessary part of compulsory public education. And when examining their results and comparing them to the public schools, the media and politicians have got to use apples to apples comparisons that adjust for the SES of the different student bodies.

Some charter schools are doing an excellent job and their methods can and should be scaled up. I highlighted some of them in the Success Stories thread, examples are more time in school, superior leadership, smaller size, and superior coaching and feedback to teachers from leadership.

 

[Milhouse]

charter schools are a shitload better for kids with special needs than public schools

 

[Wrangor]

You mean the 45 states and local districts that bowed to federal pressure and are instituting Common Core in order to appeal to NCLB and Race to the Top?

I find myself agreeing with you a lot this thread. Common core is a terrible strategy.

 

[sailordeac]

Both teachers and students need a long summer break. Summer vacation did not result from some accident or mistake. Education works better that way.

 

[Deacon923]

charter schools are a shitload better for kids with special needs than public schools

there are a lot of different kinds of "special needs". a kid with ADD or a learning disability is one thing. A severely autistic or disabled kid who needs one to one care is another. The public schools have to provide that one to one care, private charters will not. Drives up the per pupil cost significantly, especially in urban districts. parents with severely disabled kids will very often move to urban districts to get into those systems.

 

[Deacon923]

Both teachers and students need a long summer break. Summer vacation did not result from some accident or mistake. Education works better that way.

lolwut? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_learning_loss

You're right about one thing, summer vacation is not a mistake. it's a direct result of agrarian societies needing child labor on farms, which has never caught up to the industrial age, much less the post-industrial knowledge economy. nobody seriously questions that kids would be better off educationally without long summer breaks. Middle class and upper class parents know this intuitively, and they have their kids in high-quality learning experiences all summer because they can afford it. The main opposition here are the industries that profit off summer break (camps, tourism, etc.).

 

[BeachBumDeac]

Both teachers and students need a long summer break. Summer vacation did not result from some accident or mistake. Education works better that way.

This might be the stupidest post on this thread, and there have been a lot of stupid ones

 

[bigdoublezero]

Both teachers and students need a long summer break. Summer vacation did not result from some accident or mistake. Education works better that way.

Translation: I have fond memories of summer camp as a kid.

 

[WFFaithful]

there's nothing inherently wrong with charter schools. What is wrong is how politicians often stack the deck to make them more successful (or look more successful) than non-charter public schools, in order to further demonize the non-charter schools.

For example, they should be held to the exact same accountability standards as public schools. They should be made to share the load of educating disabled kids (not necessarily by enrolling them, but the amount they are paid per pupil should be less than the cost per pupil that the public schools pay which is skewed up by the requirement to educate disabled kids). They must pay their fair share of the cost of school bus transportation, which is a necessary part of compulsory public education. And when examining their results and comparing them to the public schools, the media and politicians have got to use apples to apples comparisons that adjust for the SES of the different student bodies.

Some charter schools are doing an excellent job and their methods can and should be scaled up. I highlighted some of them in the Success Stories thread, examples are more time in school, superior leadership, smaller size, and superior coaching and feedback to teachers from leadership.

don't forget lunches