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Role of the Media

Wrangor said:
The media has abdicated its role in responsible fact checking for a long time. The reason they have little credibility right now is because they are being hypocritical. They are exactly right to malign Trump, but their voice would be heard much louder if they had acted responsibly for the past decade and a half. That is my take away. The media is going crazy because half the country has tuned them out and is listening to Trump's lies. A large part of the reason why people aren't listening to the mass media is because the mass media hasn't been in the truth business for a long time. They have been in the opinion business. Now they are trying to sell themselves as truth, when half the country sees them as opinion. That is a difficult transition.
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I understand you believe this, but it is just not true.

Repeat after me- THERE IS NO MEDIA. There is no monolithic organization that directs coverage of the news. There are a variety of different sources of media, all which are, sadly enough, competing against each other for the eyes and ears of the populace. The NYT, WSJ, WaPO, ABC, CNN, CBS, NBC, BBC and Fox are not driven by some sort of set of grand puppeteers.

I will buy that the fact media, especially tv media, has become a 24-hour ratings thing is absolutely horrible for the public. It led to the dearth of journalism and instead relied on having 2 people with opposing viewpoints battle it out, without any real sense of what the actual facts are. But the White House press corps for the print media is just as solid now as it has ever been. The people who get that designation for the legit outlets (as opposed to the Breitbarts, White Nationalist Daily, and various bloggers that the Trump Adminstration had deigned to include), are generally some of the best in the world at their jobs.

The failure of news outlets has not been the failure to act responsibly. The reporters covering the White House reported fairly on issues ranging from the decision to go to war in Iraq, to the sausage-making that lead to the enactment of the ACA and the fall-out afterwards, to covering things that President (or then-candidate) Trump said. The failure has been that the creation of FoxNews (and the response of outlets like HuffPo, MSNBC, and the like) has made it ok to be slanted, instead of reporting news. That made it easier for most people to get comfortable with only getting news from sources they agree with. And that led to what we have now, where if President Trump acts like a jackass to the media, conservative outlets don't cover it in a meaningful way.
 
PhDeac said:
I was referring the post you made earlier in the day.
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Yeah, I got that. Your comment was stupid. I haven't fallen for anything. If anything I have been the only conservative on this board that has consistently not fallen for Trump since the beginning. Calling the media out is not the same thing as condoning Trump. They are a big part of his success. That doesn't mean in any way I release him of responsibility to tell the truth. He is a liar.
 
Wrangor said:
Yeah, I got that. Your comment was stupid. I haven't fallen for anything. If anything I have been the only conservative on this board that has consistently not fallen for Trump since the beginning. Calling the media out is not the same thing as condoning Trump. They are a big part of his success. That doesn't mean in any way I release him of responsibility to tell the truth. He is a liar.
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You completely misunderstood my post then. I wasn't saying you support Trump. I was saying you've fallen for the conservative anti-media narrative.
 
Why is it that nobody has trouble distinguishing between First Take dialogue/takes (plainly opinion) and injury reports from sources on SportsCenter (plainly fact) in the sports arena, but is just incapable of doing so in the political realm.

Debates about issues on CNN panels and reports on White House issues from sources in the political arena, in my opinion, very closely follow this same scheme but doesn't suffer from the same issue. Why is that?

General Flynn talking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions was confirmed by a transcript of the call and nine different independent sources and Donald/the conservatives say it isn't true. This isn't a debate about policy, this is an event that occurred. This isn't fake news. To say this is the media lying is just absolute idiocy.
 
Wrangor said:
Yeah, I got that. Your comment was stupid. I haven't fallen for anything. If anything I have been the only conservative on this board that has consistently not fallen for Trump since the beginning. Calling the media out is not the same thing as condoning Trump. They are a big part of his success. That doesn't mean in any way I release him of responsibility to tell the truth. He is a liar.
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I agree that you were a conservative who has called Trump out on his bullshit since day one.

To piggyback off of Sig---who runs "the media"? It's not a single entity---there are thousands of smaller parts that make it up, each of which act on their own accords and standards.

Why are there so many "liberal media" outlets if SO many people are opposed to that type of rhetoric and policymaking?
 
Wrangor said:
Yeah, I got that. Your comment was stupid. I haven't fallen for anything. If anything I have been the only conservative on this board that has consistently not fallen for Trump since the beginning. Calling the media out is not the same thing as condoning Trump. They are a big part of his success. That doesn't mean in any way I release him of responsibility to tell the truth. He is a liar.
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you've fallen for a lot pard
 
DeaconSig said:
I understand you believe this, but it is just not true.

Repeat after me- THERE IS NO MEDIA. There is no monolithic organization that directs coverage of the news. There are a variety of different sources of media, all which are, sadly enough, competing against each other for the eyes and ears of the populace. The NYT, WSJ, WaPO, ABC, CNN, CBS, NBC, BBC and Fox are not driven by some sort of set of grand puppeteers.

I will buy that the fact media, especially tv media, has become a 24-hour ratings thing is absolutely horrible for the public. It led to the dearth of journalism and instead relied on having 2 people with opposing viewpoints battle it out, without any real sense of what the actual facts are. But the White House press corps for the print media is just as solid now as it has ever been. The people who get that designation for the legit outlets (as opposed to the Breitbarts, White Nationalist Daily, and various bloggers that the Trump Adminstration had deigned to include), are generally some of the best in the world at their jobs.

The failure of news outlets has not been the failure to act responsibly. The reporters covering the White House reported fairly on issues ranging from the decision to go to war in Iraq, to the sausage-making that lead to the enactment of the ACA and the fall-out afterwards, to covering things that President (or then-candidate) Trump said. The failure has been that the creation of FoxNews (and the response of outlets like HuffPo, MSNBC, and the like) has made it ok to be slanted, instead of reporting news. That made it easier for most people to get comfortable with only getting news from sources they agree with. And that led to what we have now, where if President Trump acts like a jackass to the media, conservative outlets don't cover it in a meaningful way.
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I know you believe the bolded statement, but it just isn't true. Even in your explanation you admit that it is happening, you just like to claim that it is only happening in the conservative outlets. You contradict your own statement. Fox News is a machine. The left machine is far more vast and it has been playing to the left side of the country for years (which is why Fox News exists in the first place...there was a void). If you are going to be in the truth business, then you need to be in it. You can't decide to jump in and out when it is convenient for your ratings. I am not making the claim that Trump is being treated unfairly. He most likely is, but they were not fair to Obama in that they didn't call out the BS enough, and often were complicit in the BS. That is what center right and beyond America sees, and it is why Trump has way more leverage to spout insanity than he should. Center right America doesn't trust what is being reported to them, and it is hard to blame them.
 
of course the bolded is true. what the hell is wrong with you?
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I agree that you were a conservative who has called Trump out on his bullshit since day one.

To piggyback off of Sig---who runs "the media"? It's not a single entity---there are thousands of smaller parts that make it up, each of which act on their own accords and standards.

Why are there so many "liberal media" outlets if SO many people are opposed to that type of rhetoric and policymaking?
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Its not a conspiracy is the result of liberal journalism departments replicated over years. It is the natural result of the reality that as of 2014 only 7% of journalists identify themselves as Republican.

Let that sink in....

7%

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media...nt-of-reporters-identify-as-republican-188053

I am not making the claim that Mugatu is sitting on the iron throne of journalism issuing liberal orders to the plebes. I am making the argument that the news is slanted liberal in the vast majority of cases, and that reporting has changed from fact gathering to opinion projecting. When you combine the small amount of conservative voices with the change in reporting (in order to gain more readers, viewers, more $$$, etc....) then the result is a opinion based 'MEDIA' that slants heavily left. This is disenchanting for the 45% of the country that identifies on the right side of the spectrum, and at a certain point they stopped trusting the opinion based reporting of people with whom they share very little common opinions.

If you call that 'falling for it' then I guess I have fallen for it. You can't deny that reporting has shifted focus in the past 15-20 years, and you can't deny that a minutia of reporters identify as republican. Put em together and voila, it is a fairly simply explanation for what a lot of conservatives have been saying for a long time.
 
I think the problem lies with conservatives now calling anything that doesn't fall into the Fox News/Breitbart side of things "fake news." It's a rejection of news on the basis that there's some monolithic force out there creating fake news for the sake of making conservatives look dumb in public opinion.

Everything except several notably conservative outlets is blatantly not going to be only fake news. I really think calling CNN fake news makes the argument considerably weaker. CNN goes for hyperbole on both sides with their panels and I think that they have a lot of pundits out there giving some interesting opinions, but that's not news - that's opinion. CNN's investigative reporting is credible and very solid.
 
Milhouse said:
of course the bolded is true. what the hell is wrong with you?
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There isn't a conservative media agenda that is pushed and crosses the boundaries of different conservative news organizations? You serious Clark? Its amazing that they all seem to get their talking points to match each other whenever a crisis hits. What a coincidence.
 
Wrangor said:
There isn't a conservative media agenda that is pushed and crosses the boundaries of different conservative news organizations? You serious Clark? Its amazing that they all seem to get their talking points to match each other whenever a crisis hits. What a coincidence.
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Do the executives at CNN, MSNBC, WAPO, NYT, ABC, and NBC all just call each other when there is a crisis and make sure they get it right? They just exclude Fox?
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Why is it that nobody has trouble distinguishing between First Take dialogue/takes (plainly opinion) and injury reports from sources on SportsCenter (plainly fact) in the sports arena, but is just incapable of doing so in the political realm.

Debates about issues on CNN panels and reports on White House issues from sources in the political arena, in my opinion, very closely follow this same scheme but doesn't suffer from the same issue. Why is that?

General Flynn talking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions was confirmed by a transcript of the call and nine different independent sources and Donald/the conservatives say it isn't true. This isn't a debate about policy, this is an event that occurred. This isn't fake news. To say this is the media lying is just absolute idiocy.
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Well said.
 
I'm not stating that the news doesn't have a liberal slant to it (makes sense given the 7% Republican number), but I don't think there's some CONSPIRACY THEORY or FAKE NEWS issue with the big MSM companies.

I don't watch Fox and think it's tremendously slanted towards conservative ideas, but their reporting is usually solid. I just ignore their opinion pieces.
 
Wrangor said:
There isn't a conservative media agenda that is pushed and crosses the boundaries of different conservative news organizations? You serious Clark? Its amazing that they all seem to get their talking points to match each other whenever a crisis hits. What a coincidence.
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THE MEDIA covers a lot of outlets
 
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