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HP's UNC-Cheat Thread - UNC comes out on top, NCAA penalized by UNC

newtondeac3 said:
"I would hope that this episode teaches an important lesson - the self restricting, honor code way of doing business is not the successful model.

This is part and parcel of why honor societies and cultures are ground out by more successful mercantile or win at all costs societies and cultures.

Power, money, savvy, and ruthlessness wins in the real world.

It's no different than the American Legal System - right and wrong have nothing to do with the "Law". The "Law" is a certain set of rules and those that learn to skirt the law for their gain advance in the game of life. Those that follow the "spirit" of the rules fall behind. It just like that in business or politics.

Show me the tangible reward for being the more ethical person or entity and I will show you a grave."

This was written by Lumberpack3 on pack pride. Sadly, this is just the way the world works.
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A good deal of this is true.

On the other hand, Wake seems to have attracted more than its fair share of "virtue is its own reward" people. Or was it our Wake experience that has led us there?
 
wakelaw13 said:
This is all wrong. I'd prefer to do things the right way, and not cheating or having anything "fake" is certainly the right way. Makes it much sweeter when you win, especially against people who cheat.

On another note, there may not be sanctions by the NCAA, but we can all do our part by talking a lot of shit to UNC fans about their fake school. For the ones who didn't go there, it can be pointed out they root for a fake school they didn't go to.
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I get that most Wake fans feel that way. I think it's part of the reason I remained a Wake fan even though I didn't go to Wake.

It doesn't make losing to teams that break the rules/not technically a rule and get away with it easier.

I just wonder how many department meetings are happening all over the country today to set up fake classes.
 
DG3 said:
Oh you're absolutely right. I just want their idiocy on public display.
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The problem with people that are too dumb to get it is that they are too dumb to get that they don't get it.
 
Bubble Boy said:
The problem with people that are too dumb to get it is that they are too dumb to get that they don't get it.
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What about those of us that were smart enough to know that nothing was ever going to happen? Being right this often is exhausting.
 
jhmd2000 said:
What about those of us that were smart enough to know that nothing was ever going to happen? Being right this often is exhausting.
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Once againnnnnnn, my wife who never reads sports boards or sports news articles was right. Smart woman.
 
UNC fans have no shame in any of this. They are trying to act as if they are the champion of schools rights against the big bad ncaa.
 
The message is that integrity is a sad loss of effort and energy. Recruit the player you want without even giving thought to his academic background or skills. Enroll the player in bogus classes, have tutors complete assignments for him,grant him abundant time to exercise, develop his body and skills , while also receiving careful chosen nutrition and workouts crafted to suit his skill and body style. Virtually set the player (he is not a student-athlete. He nothing more than an athlete) free to practice his sport or to do anything else he wishes to do. The only requirement: contend for championships and make TV money.Make money for the school and the school will secure for you a great opportunity at the next level. You will improve your basketball skills while others are submerged in class work, so you can make a name for your self in the league and around the nation; retire from the facade of college life and graduate to the big money in the NBA. The college experience has been one glorious basketball camp with ample opportunity to improve both your game and your reputation. There is almost no academic work. it is almost all basketball and party life. When you graduate, possibly with honors due to the hard work of you mentor you are set to look good and to earn millions of dollars while being thought of as a legitimate scholar. It's a ruse calculated to make the school look strong academically and athletically while enabling the athlete to look like an All-American and a high draft pick. And the fans are euphoric because they just want to win! Using essentially professional players to excel in college is of not serious concern !

Thus college basketball becomes minor league NBA and the league doesn't pay for it.
And the players come out of it as unlearned as they went in, except they are better basketball players. Sad trade-off. THANKS UNC.


THANK YOU NCAA! THIS IS YOUR DOING AND IT IS A HUGE FARCE!
 
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jhmd2000 said:
What about those of us that were smart enough to know that nothing was ever going to happen? Being right this often is exhausting.
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Well, I guess if you have been going around saying "hell yeah we cheated, but the NCAA can't do a damn thing about it", then congrats, you were right.

In all honesty, are you of the belief that nothing happened with regard to sham classes? That it was all just "fake news". Or are you more in the "well, everybody does it" camp? Or do you just not give a shit? That winning is the most important thing, and that you just do whatever it takes to win, and then just say "fuck you", if anyone calls you out on it?

The reality is that no matter if the NCAA ended up with jurisdiction over whatever happened at UNC, this saga has created a HUGE black-eye for the school, especially on the academic side of things; and today's ruling did nothing to eliminate that. So yeah, the sports teams didn't get punished, but the huge shit stain on the school still remains.
 
Bubble Boy said:
Well, I guess if you have been going around saying "hell yeah we cheated, but the NCAA can't do a damn thing about it", then congrats, you were right.

In all honesty, are you of the belief that nothing happened with regard to sham classes? That it was all just "fake news". Or are you more in the "well, everybody does it" camp? Or do you just not give a shit? That winning is the most important thing, and that you just do whatever it takes to win, and then just say "fuck you", if anyone calls you out on it?

The reality is that no matter if the NCAA ended up with jurisdiction over whatever happened at UNC, this saga has created a HUGE black-eye for the school, especially on the academic side of things; and today's ruling did nothing to eliminate that. So yeah, the sports teams didn't get punished, but the huge shit stain on the school still remains.
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I'm sure you're right.
 
demondeacfreak said:
The ACC is just a disgusting conference now. Louisville and Miami getting caught up in the FBI investigation, UNC getting away with decades of fraud with no penalty. I can't believe Wake is associated with these dingbats. I'm with Brasky on this one. It is time for college athletics to either go away or to reform so drastically that it is almost unrecognizable from what it is now. This whole system is a joke and a fraud on taxpayers, alumni, students, professors, and on the players themselves.
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Why is the NCAA considered "non-profit"?
 
In all seriousness, I would like to get a feel for what your take on this whole thing has been.

Bubble Boy said:
In all honesty, are you of the belief that nothing happened with regard to sham classes? That it was all just "fake news". Or are you more in the "well, everybody does it" camp? Or do you just not give a shit? That winning is the most important thing, and that you just do whatever it takes to win, and then just say "fuck you", if anyone calls you out on it?
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Wish I could believe that this episode will materially damage UNC's academic reputation, but I don't think it does/will.

Just wait. The vast majority of people (even those that have an interest in college sports and academic reputation of colleges and universities) will only have a fleeting recollection of this scandal and will remember that it concluded without any NCAA penalty. Details of the academic fraud will wish away quickly. For many, it is already gone. As a result, the conclusion of most people will be: nothing materially wrong could have happened. Had the penalty resulted in multi-year post-season bans, stripped championships or even losses of scholarships, there would at least be lingering stain which would be difficult to try to erase. Now, it's getting close to the point where it almost never happened. Pathetic.

Just sucks to try to compete against a cheater. Feel the burn of losing to a foe with an unfair advantage. Get teased by the notion that the cheater will get called on it, and then watch them walk.
 
Bubble Boy said:
In all seriousness, I would like to get a feel for what your take on this whole thing has been.
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What happened at UNC is about as obvious as you can get. The academic people wanted an AFAM department, and nobody (who wanted to stay in administration) was going to supervise it. AFAM knew it was bullet-proof at inception, and everyone else found out over time, including inter alia, a small minority of people in athletics. People who either wanted or needed a handful of easy classes had a few to pick from. Of course, the supermajority of UNC students (and athletes) didn't, but that doesn't make ABC message boards go click.

I think the NCAA does not have a bylaw that addresses what happened at UNC, UNC's lawyers knew that, and the NCAA tried three times to prove them wrong. UNC was right and in the end, the NCAA knew it, so they dropped a case they didn't have. Facts + Law + Reason = Outcome. You guys who invested emotionally invested in Pack Pride legal analysis invested...poorly.

eta: Is your theory that the NCAA has a clear by-law that addresses this conduct? In seven years, three NOAs and twenty million in legal fees later, they didn't seem to think so. Sometimes you just have to take your L and move on.
 
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