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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

As disappointing and shocking as this 1-4 start is with losses to the likes of Drake, GA Southern and Liberty (that should fill the quota for bad losses for a decade+, and they came in just over one week), let the season play out. Manning is not getting fired mid-season, and the remaining 25 games will only provide more evidence to support or reject the conclusion of whether a coaching change makes sense. With that said, no one can reasonably dispute that this team entered this season unprepared to play basketball at the even a mediocre level. Further, when faced with adversity late in games (time to win the game), WF has crumbled all 4 times. That failure to prepare and failure to respond to adversity falls squarely on the coaching staff. Hope it changes, but can't be sure that it will change.
 
RChildress107 said:
I’m clearly not above calling people idiots, I just haven’t done so during this discussion. Idiotic isn’t the right word.

It’s not idiotic to think Manning isn’t the long term solution, and that’s actually a slightly stronger position than it was ten days ago. It’s still a position relatively short on hard evidence and it’s also not that interesting/relevant of a discussion.

I’m realistic in realizing that Danny Manning probably isn’t going to win a national championship while he is here. I’m also realistic in realizing he has already taken this program on several necessary steps towards that ultimate goal and has a decent chance to take a few more.

The chances we were going to follow up [name redacted] with our own Coach K were always slim. Manning will almost certainly reach a point here where he is no longer the right guy to move us forward (almost all coaches do). However, I haven’t seen any evidence, outside the last 5 days, that we are anywhere close to that point.
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This nails it, and there's definitely some humor to be found in the same folks that opened last year predicting Manning to finish 2nd to last in the ACC now being outraged when they predicted 20 wins and we look awful to start. You had to have been wrong at some point.

College basketball is more about the recruits than the coaching these days (See Williams, Roy) and of course there are exceptions. If we follow 2018 with a similar 2019 class it'll be amazing how quickly Manning will "learn" to teach defense, rebounding, and clutch shooting.

Really would have liked to have been a fly on the wall for the Woods/Manning fight though.
 
Manning has to right the ship this season. If he does not get the team playing well he'll be on the hot seat and recruiting will be very difficult. He'll have to have success with next year's class and he's still risking a sub part class after that.

Playing well does not have to mean NCAAs. But he's got to be able to tell a narrative about starting slow, finishing strong and having some signature wins to point illustrate his recruiting pitch.
 
DCDeac said:
This nails it, and there's definitely some humor to be found in the same folks that opened last year predicting Manning to finish 2nd to last in the ACC now being outraged when they predicted 20 wins and we look awful to start. You had to have been wrong at some point.

College basketball is more about the recruits than the coaching these days (See Williams, Roy) and of course there are exceptions. If we follow 2018 with a similar 2019 class it'll be amazing how quickly Manning will "learn" to teach defense, rebounding, and clutch shooting.

Really would have liked to have been a fly on the wall for the Woods/Manning fight though.
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So, now a 1-4 start is on the players. Yeah. Okay. I know I've read this somewhere before.

Don't you just find "mysterious" how Dave Clawson isn't in any of these types of discussions and he has almost 80 players to recruit and coach and has gone to the post-season two of his first four years?
I do. But, I'm sure our rising success in football has NOTHING to do with coaching. Eighty people just randomly showed up and well.... there ya' go.
 
coredeac said:
So, now a 1-4 start is on the players. Yeah. Okay. I know I've read this somewhere before.

Don't you just find "mysterious" how Dave Clawson isn't in any of these types of discussions and he has almost 80 players to recruit and coach and has gone to the post-season two of his first four years?
I do. But, I'm sure our rising success in football has NOTHING to do with coaching. Eighty people just randomly showed up and well.... there ya' go.
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Oh the "fire everyone" crew loves Clawson now? Earlier in the year Ruggiero sucked and should have been fired as well, according to posters on this board. And there were plenty of folks last year mocking the schedule and denouncing the bowl game as fools gold, Clawson's offense as hopeless, the slow developing read options as a sign he was out of his league.

Clawson also didn't lose 40% of his starting players to the NFL sooner than expected.

Nobody's even arguing Manning is as good a coach as Clawson or that play has "nothing to do with coaching." This is exactly the kind of post morons keep posting. Take a reasonable argument, push it to an extreme so you can fight about it.
 
DCDeac said:
Oh the "fire everyone" crew loves Clawson now? Earlier in the year Ruggiero sucked and should have been fired as well, according to posters on this board. And there were plenty of folks last year mocking the schedule and denouncing the bowl game as fools gold, Clawson's offense as hopeless, the slow developing read options as a sign he was out of his league.

Clawson also didn't lose 40% of his starting players to the NFL sooner than expected.

Nobody's even arguing Manning is as good a coach as Clawson or that play has "nothing to do with coaching." This is exactly the kind of post morons keep posting. Take a reasonable argument, push it to an extreme so you can fight about it.
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I'm not fighting about anything. You did a nice job of deflecting and never addressed my point. My point being that coaching is a huge part of college athletics. People don't just randomly assemble themselves and hand out jerseys. You seem to think it's the personnel. Hopefully, I have us back on track.

But, please continue with your "moron" analysis. I think you are onto something.
 
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RChildress107 said:
I’m clearly not above calling people idiots, I just haven’t done so during this discussion. Idiotic isn’t the right word.

It’s not idiotic to think Manning isn’t the long term solution, and that’s actually a slightly stronger position than it was ten days ago. It’s still a position relatively short on hard evidence and it’s also not that interesting/relevant of a discussion.

I’m realistic in realizing that Danny Manning probably isn’t going to win a national championship while he is here. I’m also realistic in realizing he has already taken this program on several necessary steps towards that ultimate goal and has a decent chance to take a few more.

The chances we were going to follow up [name redacted] with our own Coach K were always slim. Manning will almost certainly reach a point here where he is no longer the right guy to move us forward (almost all coaches do). However, I haven’t seen any evidence, outside the last 5 days, that we are anywhere close to that point.
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I hear you, but the last five days matter. I mean they really matter.

I'm just not sure I get the position of "last year proved me right about Manning" and yet "the last five days could be an aberration; let's just wait and see." Some of you want to form your opinions based on some events and not others. I realize you may say the same about me.

I do take all the evidence into account, as I think there's enough of it by now to form the opinion I've formed.

I did not predict the team to get 20 wins this year, and glad I didn't. These three losses were historically bad, and once we lost the second, I was honestly not surprised we lost the third. This is what I mean when I say I've formed my opinion about DM, and as much as you seek to de-legitimize it, it simply isn't an absurd viewpoint. It just may have merit, and that is hard for some to accept.
 
coredeac said:
I'm not fighting about anything. You did a nice job of deflecting and never addressed my point. My point being that coaching is a huge part of college athletics. People don't just randomly assemble themselves and hand out jerseys. You seem to think it's the personnel. Hopefully, I have us back on track.

But, please continue with your "moron" analysis. I think you are onto something.
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Usually when you type in all-caps, change someone's argument to something they never said so you can more vehemently dismiss it, and then wrap it all in bitter sarcasm - it comes off as fighting. Just FYI.

Were you the idiot that started the Clawson > Manning thread? Or just the first post celebrating it?
 
DCDeac said:
Usually when you type in all-caps, change someone's argument to something they never said so you can more vehemently dismiss it, and then wrap it all in bitter sarcasm - it comes off as fighting. Just FYI.

Were you the idiot that started the Clawson > Manning thread? Or just the first post celebrating it?
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I think you have me confused with someone else. But, hey, I wish you well on your vendetta. I casually visit this board. I'm sure you're heavily invested in it. So, best of luck.

And is "idiot" better than "moron" or do I have that backwards?
 
DCDeac said:
change someone's argument to something they never said so you can more vehemently dismiss it
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Ha! Another correctly identified strawman argument. That's like three since summer! Well done, ogboards community.
 
coredeac said:
So, now a 1-4 start is on the players. Yeah. Okay. I know I've read this somewhere before.

Don't you just find "mysterious" how Dave Clawson isn't in any of these types of discussions and he has almost 80 players to recruit and coach and has gone to the post-season two of his first four years?
I do. But, I'm sure our rising success in football has NOTHING to do with coaching. Eighty people just randomly showed up and well.... there ya' go.
Click to expand...

The 1-4 start is on the coach. Manning didn’t/doesn’t have this team ready to play at the level they are capable of. That’s completely on him. I’m sure he knows that. Doesn’t really have much bearing on how likely he is to turn it around.
 
coredeac said:
I think you have me confused with someone else. But, hey, I wish you well on your vendetta. I casually visit this board. I'm sure you're heavily invested in it. So, best of luck.

And is "idiot" better than "moron" or do I have that backwards?
Click to expand...

No, you were the first post supporting that thread actually. Congrats.

The desire to use Clawson's success to tear down Manning is fascinating. It's like a parent who uses one kid's success as a weapon against the other kid.

And while you have most things backwards - you're living up to both billings pretty easily. I'll apologize in a heartbeat if you want to actually talk hoops instead of whatever it is you're doing. But this is a message board and you are what you write. That post was simply awful.
 
DCDeac said:
No, you were the first post supporting that thread actually. Congrats.

The desire to use Clawson's success to tear down Manning is fascinating. It's like a parent who uses one kid's success as a weapon against the other kid.

And while you have most things backwards - you're living up to both billings pretty easily. I'll apologize in a heartbeat if you want to actually talk hoops instead of whatever it is you're doing. But this is a message board and you are what you write. That post was simply awful.
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LOL. Okay. I wish you best of luck. You're obviously passionate about this board. I'm not. So, you go get those evil bastards who hate Manning! I wish you the best of luck.
 
coredeac said:
I think you have me confused with someone else. But, hey, I wish you well on your vendetta. I casually visit this board. I'm sure you're heavily invested in it. So, best of luck.
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There's nothing casual about your presence on these boards. You come in full guns blazing, firing the hottest of takes. Here's one:

coredeac said:
Recruiting / developing a top-tier QB is an immediate goal for Wake to move to a higher level. No doubt.
Wolford is not a P5 QB. Not even close.
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How is that the "hottest of takes?" Wolford lost his starting job and then he did develop into a top tier QB.
 
I mean, people that said Wolford belonged in the FCS or not P5 quality were definitely wrong. Why even say dumb shit like that in the first place. Trust our coaches and the process.
 
PhDeac said:
How is that the "hottest of takes?" Wolford lost his starting job and then he did develop into a top tier QB.
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For me it was the definitive nature combined with the hyperbole - "Wolford is not a P5 QB. Not even close."

I knew if I searched "coredeac wolford" there would be some good stuff - it took about 10 seconds to find that. I'm sure there's a lot more.
 
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