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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

People want to see what they want to see. Fans want to see a positive trajectory. The past 5 games were 5 consecutive hard slaps to the face reality checks.

It's almost like Manning wanted to make sure there was no doubt about his coaching ability. 2 or 3 games could have been outliers.

BZ had supporters way past the point of reason as well. That's what fans do.
 
For me it's the lack of improvement in individual players plus the apparent inability to find a scheme that emphasizes our strengths and minimizes our weaknesses. Also, I am disappointed by the lack of hustle plays. For Wake to be out-rebounded by the teams we have played is inexcusable!

Indeed, very salient point. My buddy and I were watching the Wake\NCSU football game the other night and got to talking at halftime about Danny and the Deacs. Our three biggest takeaways and complaints include the lack of improvement in individual players you mention above mebane.

1) While we've seen a few guys progress from year to year, many of the guards continue to make the same mistakes that have plagued them as freshmen. Yes, when the team is less talented, there will be more turnovers and mistakes, but save for last year, Danny's team has had an alarmingly hard time limiting turnovers. In addition, we've relied considerably on post-grad transfers (Darius Williams, Austin Arians and now TT) in the front court and typically the younger, greener big men, rarely get a chance to cut their teeth with the team's best players on the court at the same time, often getting spot minutes playing with several other inexperienced or limited players.

2) The intractable resistance to zone defense has created a situation where guys aren't learning the nuances of playing effective team defense. The over-reliance on man to man and "staying in front of your damn man" has put too much strain on smaller back court players to do just that. And even if they do stay in front of their man, he normally can shoot right over him. In the front court, there's an over-emphasis on hedging out on screens and rotating rather than allowing a big man like Doral or Collins to just stay planted in the lane and patrol the glass.

3) The oft-discussed and bemoaned strange substitution patters and employment of puzzling lineups that don't maintain continuity and destroy flow. Case in point being the ends of first halves when Danny invariably loves to rest starters who have built an 8-12 point lead only to see it evaporate quickly as second liners end up playing too many minutes as a group and too much scoring is left on the bench. Not to mention the over-reliance on a pick and roll type offense that doesn't necessarily lend itself to creating post opportunities for pressing big men with fragile egos. And of course the quick hook when said fragile players makes a couple of mistakes and then ends up on the bench the rest of a half.

I think folks here would exhibit a bit more patience and not engage in reactionary, frustration-laden diatribes on this here forum if we saw more evidence of Manning's ability to both anticipate the issues that arise and implement proactively better schemes to deal with it. There is no excuse to not have worked hard in the first few weeks of practice to implement a match-up or perimeter-aggressive zone to deal with our obvious lack of size and quickness in the back court, as well as experience in the front court (see lack of development).

Not to mention DM has rarely demonstrated the type of coaching acumen (so I guess that is major point #4) that leads to the right half-time adjustments to counter the other team's adjustments (and corrections of dumb mistakes that plague our players in our PnR reliant offense), which always seem to create stagnation and scoring droughts for us and longer spurts of efficiency (often times absurdly so to the tune of 40-50 points) for them. And record scoring for a moderately talented guard whom we always afford a great match-up with our insistence to play the wrong combos of players for too long a stretch or at end of games.

If we were seeing more progress in these areas as opposed to just better talent 1-7 like we saw last year, which helped us overcome these coaching deficiencies in year 3, which is looking like more of an aberration rather than a natural evolution towards consistency, team identity and commitment to defense and hustle plays you would expect and hope to see solidified by year 4.
 
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But we didn't know it 10 days ago. Ok.

Some of us have been totally consistent going all the way back. That he does possess some coaching talent and experience, that he represents Wake well, that he scored a fantastic recruiting class, that he has major holes in his coaching that do not seem to improve and will likely cause us never to go where we want to go as a basketball program.
 
People were excited about Manning based on a positive trajectory. People are down on Manning based on a negative trajectory.

Not hard to understand.
Don't understate what's being said - posters are calling for Wellman, Manning, and even Childress to be fired.
 
Food for thought: this thread has basically been first or second page since 2014.

It gets bumped after big losses and moves down in the offseason.
 
I say fire the entire staff, administration, yank the scholarships of every single player, lock the Joel, assess a 5 year death penalty and then just shut down the entire Wake Forest University.

That will show 'em.
 
I say fire the entire staff, administration, yank the scholarships of every single player, lock the Joel, assess a 5 year death penalty and then just shut down the entire Wake Forest University.

That will show 'em.

change it back to Wake Forest College and raze the WS campus
 
Don't understate what's being said - posters are calling for Wellman, Manning, and even Childress to be fired.

And those posters have consistently not been impressed with them.
 
It's possible to be disappointed or down without feeling the need to call for people's heads/jobs.

Just a few weeks ago a number of folks here were down on Clawson and stating our OC was worse than....Oh, forget it.

Lol wake fans for you in a nutshell.
I was PISSED about the first three games. The last two haven’t been bad, about what is expected. We’re progressing with a brand new lineup that a large majority of our rebounds came from two guys who left. If Dino’s was on our team we’d probably be 4-1 or 5-0. We’ll figure it out and I still like Danny moving forward (and I’m sure if it doesn’t pan out, I’ll get shit on for the support but whatever).
 
Wellman hired a very risky coach with almost no head coaching experience. It was a huge gamble at a time that Wake basketball could not afford a gamble. I hoped it would work out, but it was just hope. .

This is the fact of the matter.
 
I say fire the entire staff, administration, yank the scholarships of every single player, lock the Joel, assess a 5 year death penalty and then just shut down the entire Wake Forest University.

That will show 'em.

Time for the Wake Athletic Department to take you and yours out for a steak dinner. Get you back on their side.
 
One of the things that strikes me about Danny Manning is his seeming propensity to stubbornness. I'd like to think more it's that than his lacking the intellectual chops to see a need for change, accept it, and move on to some greater successes.
 
People need to fucking relax.

1. Even if Manning goes 8-22 or whatever, it’s not clear that it really makes sense to fire him at this point. Only way would be for Wellman to “retire” effective Jan. 1 and get a new AD hired to conduct a search in March. That simply isn’t going to happen.

2. Unlike our last coach, Manning is a pleasant guy to be around and is well respected in the basketball community. That, combined with #1, are reason enough to give him at least one more year, even if you are convinced he sucks.

3. Way too much fucking #eyetest going on here. Just based on results the rebuild was on about the best track we could have hoped for (don’t make me go dig up the Tony Bennett charts please, just trust me) until 10 days ago. I honestly don’t give a shit if he’s not running the best system or making the best in game coaching decisions. I just care how good the team is and ultimately that’s what I judge him on. At the end of the season.


TL: DR version: either he turns it around and y’all look like idiots again or he doesn’t but we have to give him another year anyway.
 
LOL. Congrats on being consistently miserable.

“Those posters” would have a little more credibility if they didn’t have the exact same :willynilly::willynilly::circlejerk: last year.

Yes, you of all posters should be the credibility expert on Danny Manning’s credibility.
 
People need to fucking relax.

1. Even if Manning goes 8-22 or whatever, it’s not clear that it really makes sense to fire him at this point. Only way would be for Wellman to “retire” effective Jan. 1 and get a new AD hired to conduct a search in March. That simply isn’t going to happen.

2. Unlike our last coach, Manning is a pleasant guy to be around and is well respected in the basketball community. That, combined with #1, are reason enough to give him at least one more year, even if you are convinced he sucks.

3. Way too much fucking #eyetest going on here. Just based on results the rebuild was on about the best track we could have hoped for (don’t make me go dig up the Tony Bennett charts please, just trust me) until 10 days ago. I honestly don’t give a shit if he’s not running the best system or making the best in game coaching decisions. I just care how good the team is and ultimately that’s what I judge him on. At the end of the season.


TL: DR version: either he turns it around and y’all look like idiots again or he doesn’t but we have to give him another year anyway.
Of course we will give him another year whether or not he turns it around. What I’m debating is whether or not he’s going to.
 
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