Danny Manning Credibility Watch

[CantStandYa]

Some people, yes. Danny improved the recruiting trajectory of the program (although that may start to go down to where it was now that we are on pace to win about 5 games and get creamed in conference), but it was also plainly obvious that this job was OTJ training for his X and O abilities. We are now in Year 4 of DM, and this is his 6th year overall as HC after 2 years at Tulsa, not to mention about half a century at KU as an assistant. These ten days aren't just ten days. They're ten of the worst days in the history of WF hoops. A loss to Quinnawhatever is the only way it could've been worse. There is no reason for him to get the benefit of the doubt, no reason to think anything is going to get better when this level of in-game and general coaching incompetence is on display time and time again. And if it isn't the strategy but the personnel in place or players not getting motivated, then that's on DM too.

It's impossible to overstate this. We're not losing to ranked teams or even tournament teams. We're losing to glorified high school teams.

 

[RChildress107]

It's impossible to overstate this. We're not losing to ranked teams or even tournament teams. We're losing to glorified high school teams.

I can think of plenty of days far worse for the program than the last ten. Anything less than a 4-1 start was inexcusable, and to go 1-4 is inexplicable. But at the end of the day it’s 5 games. If Manning can’t salvage a winning season then I’ll be the first to say we need to look elsewhere (though I’m not sure how practical that will be given Wellman’s track record), but until it becomes obvious that won’t happen we just have to let this thing play out.

 

[PhDeac]

People were excited about Manning based on a positive trajectory. People are down on Manning based on a negative trajectory.

Not hard to understand.

 

[mebanedeac]

For me it's the lack of improvement in individual players plus the apparent inability to find a scheme that emphasizes our strengths and minimizes our weaknesses. Also, I am disappointed by the lack of hustle plays. For Wake to be out-rebounded by the teams we have played is inexcusable!

 

[ConnorEl]

It's possible to be disappointed or down without feeling the need to call for people's heads/jobs.

Just a few weeks ago a number of folks here were down on Clawson and stating our OC was worse than....Oh, forget it.

 

[gfspencer]

Some people, yes. Danny improved the recruiting trajectory of the program (although that may start to go down to where it was now that we are on pace to win about 5 games and get creamed in conference), but it was also plainly obvious that this job was OTJ training for his X and O abilities. We are now in Year 4 of DM, and this is his 6th year overall as HC after 2 years at Tulsa, not to mention about half a century at KU as an assistant. These ten days aren't just ten days. They're ten of the worst days in the history of WF hoops. A loss to Quinnawhatever is the only way it could've been worse. There is no reason for him to get the benefit of the doubt, no reason to think anything is going to get better when this level of in-game and general coaching incompetence is on display time and time again. And if it isn't the strategy but the personnel in place or players not getting motivated, then that's on DM too.

I graduated from Wake in '69 but I've been following Deacon basketball since Bones was the coach. If these aren't the worst days for Wake basketball they are pretty close to being the worst.

That said, I just hope we don't get rid of Manning before we get a new AD.

 

[edendeac]

My fraternity brother played high school basketball with Keyshawn in Gastonia and I texted him and got him to ask Keyshawn about why he didn't play the other day. Apparently he got into it with Manning. At least that's what Key told him. Key gave us tickets to the Duke game in the Joel last year.

 

[guitardeac]

People were excited about Manning based on a positive trajectory. People are down on Manning based on a negative trajectory.

Not hard to understand.

Wow that is a ridiculous oversimplification of the situation.

4 losses at beginning of season negative trajectory > 4 plus years of positive trajectory.

That's just not coherent thought. I'm down on this season too. As much as anyone. I know the game and I'm a long time donor and big time fan. And I get the instant frustration and the need to vent. And I get the need to feed the brain the idea that Manning is the problem and will be replaced. That is a little bit of a rush in the middle of frustration. But it just doesn't make sense to swing so far so fast, based on performance that is. Manning has 3 DUIs in ten days? Yep, swing from love Danny to he should be gone. But 4 games wipes away 4 plus years and happy with him two weeks ago?

To each their own, but that's just not for me. All I'm saying.

 

[deacfan123]

Really when you bring up the argument about 4 years of positive trajectory etc you are admitting that he has had 4 years and this is the product Danny has put on the court for us. Time certainly isn't the issue anymore. I hope he stays just to keep the recruiting class around and see if they can turn this thing around but it is absolutely necessary to be all over his ass about this start.

 

[birdman]

Less than two weeks ago the constant theme in basketball threads was how happy everyone was with the job Manning was doing and how happy we are to have him. Now 10 days later he's destroying the program. That's really astonishing to me.

Gene Chizick was fired one season after three straight bowl appearances, including a national championship. The stat I remember a lot Auburn fans throwing around was Chizick had a 19-19 over all record and 7-17 in conference record without Cam Newton on his team. Similarly, without John Collins on the court, all we seem to have in Danny Manning is an above average (for Wake) recruiter.

 

[PhDeac]

Wow that is a ridiculous oversimplification of the situation.

4 losses at beginning of season negative trajectory > 4 plus years of positive trajectory.

That's just not coherent thought. I'm down on this season too. As much as anyone. I know the game and I'm a long time donor and big time fan. And I get the instant frustration and the need to vent. And I get the need to feed the brain the idea that Manning is the problem and will be replaced. That is a little bit of a rush in the middle of frustration. But it just doesn't make sense to swing so far so fast, based on performance that is. Manning has 3 DUIs in ten days? Yep, swing from love Danny to he should be gone. But 4 games wipes away 4 plus years and happy with him two weeks ago?

To each their own, but that's just not for me. All I'm saying.

First, this is Manning's fourth season, not his fifth.

Second, maybe this will clarify things. After we signed this recruiting class, things were looking up for the program so people were happy with Manning. After starting 1-4 against a very weak schedule people are not happy with Manning.

 

[RJKarl]

Gene Chizick was fired one season after three straight bowl appearances, including a national championship. The stat I remember a lot Auburn fans throwing around was Chizick had a 19-19 over all record and 7-17 in conference record without Cam Newton on his team. Similarly, without John Collins on the court, all we seem to have in Danny Manning is an above average (for Wake) recruiter.

Dave Odom won one or two ACCT games total without Tim Duncan. Does your concept hold for GDO as well?

 

[tigerswood]

Can we get a simple credibility rating, please? Seems incredibly uncredible at the moment.

 

[Ayo]

Wow that is a ridiculous oversimplification of the situation.

4 losses at beginning of season negative trajectory > 4 plus years of positive trajectory.

That's just not coherent thought. I'm down on this season too. As much as anyone. I know the game and I'm a long time donor and big time fan. And I get the instant frustration and the need to vent. And I get the need to feed the brain the idea that Manning is the problem and will be replaced. That is a little bit of a rush in the middle of frustration. But it just doesn't make sense to swing so far so fast, based on performance that is. Manning has 3 DUIs in ten days? Yep, swing from love Danny to he should be gone. But 4 games wipes away 4 plus years and happy with him two weeks ago?

To each their own, but that's just not for me. All I'm saying.

4 years of positive trajectory? You do realize we were 2-16 in the ACC two years ago, right? More like 2 years of stuck in Bz's hellhole and then John Collins happened (which Manning gets credit for).

To be clear, I don't wanna fire Manning, but his inability in 4 years to coach defense is just a tad concerning.

 

[birdman]

Dave Odom won one or two ACCT games total without Tim Duncan. Does your concept hold for GDO as well?

Remind me what happened to Dave Odom at Wake Forest? Also, how many time did GDO lose to Drake and Liberty in the same season?

 

[Demonbeck]

Wow that is a ridiculous oversimplification of the situation.

4 losses at beginning of season negative trajectory > 4 plus years of positive trajectory.

That's just not coherent thought. I'm down on this season too. As much as anyone. I know the game and I'm a long time donor and big time fan. And I get the instant frustration and the need to vent. And I get the need to feed the brain the idea that Manning is the problem and will be replaced. That is a little bit of a rush in the middle of frustration. But it just doesn't make sense to swing so far so fast, based on performance that is. Manning has 3 DUIs in ten days? Yep, swing from love Danny to he should be gone. But 4 games wipes away 4 plus years and happy with him two weeks ago?

To each their own, but that's just not for me. All I'm saying.

So you are saying that if I worked for you and generally did a good job for four years, I could come take a shit on your desk and still keep my job?

 

[CreamyGoodness]

What ever happened to Danny Manning's incredible watch?

 

[knowell]

Wow that is a ridiculous oversimplification of the situation.

4 losses at beginning of season negative trajectory > 4 plus years of positive trajectory.

That's just not coherent thought. I'm down on this season too. As much as anyone. I know the game and I'm a long time donor and big time fan. And I get the instant frustration and the need to vent. And I get the need to feed the brain the idea that Manning is the problem and will be replaced. That is a little bit of a rush in the middle of frustration. But it just doesn't make sense to swing so far so fast, based on performance that is. Manning has 3 DUIs in ten days? Yep, swing from love Danny to he should be gone. But 4 games wipes away 4 plus years and happy with him two weeks ago?

To each their own, but that's just not for me. All I'm saying.

Recruiting Danny Manning looks good. Coaching Danny Manning is less than high school level.

It is natural for fans to be optimistic based on talent that has never been in the program. Fans being fans, it is easy to forget how poor the coaching has been during Manning's tenure. The really scary part is that last years defense was just as bad as this years. Having the highest efficiency offensive player in the country (by a lot) helped to mask that, but the team was still barely able to qualify for the play-in game.

If you know basketball, then you should be aware that you have not seen competent coaching over the past 3 plus years.

Once you know that you have the wrong coach, it is a mistake to continue. We all new that about BZ after the first year. We know it now about Manning.

 

[guitardeac]

So you are saying that if I worked for you and generally did a good job for four years, I could come take a shit on your desk and still keep my job?

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Good grief.

Based on a couple of the responses to my post on the previous page, I can definitely now see why there are so many heated arguments on these boards. Damn.

 

[guitardeac]

Recruiting Danny Manning looks good. Coaching Danny Manning is less than high school level.

It is natural for fans to be optimistic based on talent that has never been in the program. Fans being fans, it is easy to forget how poor the coaching has been during Manning's tenure. The really scary part is that last years defense was just as bad as this years. Having the highest efficiency offensive player in the country (by a lot) helped to mask that, but the team was still barely able to qualify for the play-in game.

If you know basketball, then you should be aware that you have not seen competent coaching over the past 3 plus years.

Once you know that you have the wrong coach, it is a mistake to continue. We all new that about BZ after the first year. We know it now about Manning.

But we didn't know it 10 days ago. Ok.