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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

I really like Danny and he has much to recommend him. But there are serious concerns.

I remember when people thought this thread was useless. Yet here we are again.
 
The guy was a bad hire on day 1. His press conference was weird. He's not an on your feet thinker....he's not dumb...he can game plan...but he's not quick either. The game gets away from him. I remember last year (and the year before) I kept screaming "call timeout!!!" at my TV...as the team would literally disintegrate on the floor....Manning just can't keep up. How long are we stuck with him? Two more years while Wellman focuses on facilities and let's the actual program burn to the ground?
 
The only legitimate concern I see is the defense. I think when the talent level has returned to pre-[Redacted] levels Manning is going to run into the same problem Skip did: teasing out just enough defense to get us over the top. Skip never could, and when Dino finally did he didn’t have the leadership chops to keep it all together. My fear with Manning is that he will be an unhappy medium between the two, but I’ll reserve judgment until I see him coach Skip and Dino like talent.

Manning was only a terrible hire in that we hired him from a self-inflicted terrible position. He’s actually worked out better than I expected. I guess people see what they want to see (including myself).

For some, the past 5 games are the confirmation of the dire predictions they were making last year that didn’t come true; for others, it is on the low end of the predictable result of losing your front court to the pros.

Do I have concerns about Manning as the long term solution? Of course. Has he done enough to earn the chance to coach a team with pre-[Redacted] talent? Of course. Will he have that team in the near future? It sure looks like it.
 
Brangus said:
The guy was a bad hire on day 1. His press conference was weird. He's not an on your feet thinker....he's not dumb...he can game plan...but he's not quick either. The game gets away from him. I remember last year (and the year before) I kept screaming "call timeout!!!" at my TV...as the team would literally disintegrate on the floor....Manning just can't keep up. How long are we stuck with him? Two more years while Wellman focuses on facilities and let's the actual program burn to the ground?
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The year Manning led us to the NCAA tournament and finished as a top 40 team 3 years into rebuilding from the lowest point (basketball wise) the program has ever seen? And you are worried about his timeout calling ability? I swear in some alternate reality y’all are all Carolina fans calling for Roy Williams to be fired every time they lose a game.
 
RChildress107 said:
The year Manning led us to the NCAA tournament and finished as a top 40 team 3 years into rebuilding from the lowest point (basketball wise) the program has ever seen? And you are worried about his timeout calling ability? I swear in some alternate reality y’all are all Carolina fans calling for Roy Williams to be fired every time they lose a game.
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Dude, we dropped games to Drake, Georgia Southern, Liberty and Houston..All in span of like 10 days. That should never happen, regardless of who is coaching the team.
 
I think even big picture folks like myself are concerned because the team is not playing nearly to their potential and Manning is the fall guy for that. As he should be.

However, rebuilding progress is not always linear. I'm hoping Manning can use this year to improve as a head coach in difficult circumstances, and that he is more prepared to coach next year's team as a result.

I am supremely frustrated by the team's performance so far this season. I'd really like to see Manning tinker around with lineups and defenses instead of continuing to pound a square peg into a round hole. I get that he loves the idea of a 4-guard lineup because it gets his perceived 4 best players on the court, but that is mitigated by the fact that your 4th best guard playing at PF (extreme example) is not maximizing that player's utility and skillset.
 
DeacsATS said:
I think even big picture folks like myself are concerned because the team is not playing nearly to their potential and Manning is the fall guy for that. As he should be.

However, rebuilding progress is not always linear. I'm hoping Manning can use this year to improve as a head coach in difficult circumstances, and that he is more prepared to coach next year's team as a result.

I am supremely frustrated by the team's performance so far this season. I'd really like to see Manning tinker around with lineups and defenses instead of continuing to pound a square peg into a round hole. I get that he loves the idea of a 4-guard lineup because it gets his perceived 4 best players on the court, but that is mitigated by the fact that your 4th best guard playing at PF (extreme example) is not maximizing that player's utility and skillset.
Click to expand...

This is where I'm at.
 
mercurydime said:
And TT is not one it seems to take advantage of the free throw opportunities either.
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I came in ready to defend Thompson, but he scored 5 points and grabbed 9 rebounds in a combined 47 minutes against Drake, Quinnipiac, and Houston. He is also shooting 47% from the free throw line (shot 63% in a larger sample size last year).

I get that he is primarily a garbage man (rebound, put back, play defense), but he has to produce more than he has. It's still early, but it's quite questionable whether or not he is an ACC caliber starter. Obviously he was the best player we could pull in after Dinos late departure, but the productivity from the 4 right now is just not good enough.
 
Woods is the obviously the problem. We are undefeated without him playing.
 
RChildress107, did you foresee this thread living at the top of the boards this early in the season? Surely you thought it was dead.

Can you at least see why it's still kicking?

You're saying last year confirmed that some of us were wrong, while I'm saying that this year is already confirming that some of us might be right.

You have always made it seem like those of us who are questioning his credibility are unreasonable. Maybe we're wrong, maybe we aren't; but our opinion is not crazy. This is definitely a debatable topic. I've come to my conclusion about him sooner than you have - that he's good, in some ways quite good, but not ultimately what will lead us to ACC Championships and Sweet Sixteens. At this point this is a reasonable position.

(BTW I'm not talking about presently firing him; I do think that is unreasonable.)

These losses must have particularly irked you. Not only because you're a passionate Deacon fan, but because you knew you would once again have to take up residence on this thread and (partially) defend whatever it is we're all witnessing out there. And those three losses are indefensible.
 
Thompson has definitely been a disappointment. I love how announcers keep describing him as a "junkyard dog" as if he's in there boxing guys out and yanking down boards, out-working his man, etc. He doesn't do any of that. So far he's a mediocre soft 4 who can't shoot, and if he lurks around the basket for enough minutes against sub 150 teams he'll get 3 putbacks and a few boards. He had one play where there was a switch, he got a board in front of a 6'0" guard and made a layup through a very weak foul. He mugged for the camera and did the "point at your bicep while you flex it" thing... I was watching it with a couple people and everyone chuckled, my buddy was like "aren't you supposed to flex when you do that?" Dude is not muscular. With Sarr getting pushed out of the paint by point guards and Doral still a little too slow to avoid getting boxed out all the time, we're just a mess rebounding the basketball inside against any size at all. Our guards have to crash every board which has led to us having a total of I think 1 single breakaway layup so far this year for a team that's supposed to play fast. Talk about an area where we miss Collins...
 
Sucks not to have Collins and Mitoglou- would have been a special season to remember.

Instead, we now have a season to forget.
 
DeacsATS said:
I think even big picture folks like myself are concerned because the team is not playing nearly to their potential and Manning is the fall guy for that. As he should be.

However, rebuilding progress is not always linear. I'm hoping Manning can use this year to improve as a head coach in difficult circumstances, and that he is more prepared to coach next year's team as a result.

I am supremely frustrated by the team's performance so far this season. I'd really like to see Manning tinker around with lineups and defenses instead of continuing to pound a square peg into a round hole. I get that he loves the idea of a 4-guard lineup because it gets his perceived 4 best players on the court, but that is mitigated by the fact that your 4th best guard playing at PF (extreme example) is not maximizing that player's utility and skillset.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure this first part is correct. Imo, we don’t have an overly talented team. Crawford and Chaundee are the main ones that are great players on our team. Key is good offensively and atrocious defensively. Doral has been pretty good when he stays out of foul trouble. Thompson is really bad. Chill is an okay back up pg, Wilby is a role player maybe on a good team. Sarr, Mitchell, and Eggleston need to progress quickly. Defense from the 3 and 4 (I’m counting Key as the 3 since Chaundee will start at SG next season) and offensive production from the 4 and 5 are the main issues on this team.
 
DeacsATS said:
I think even big picture folks like myself are concerned because the team is not playing nearly to their potential and Manning is the fall guy for that. As he should be.

However, rebuilding progress is not always linear. I'm hoping Manning can use this year to improve as a head coach in difficult circumstances, and that he is more prepared to coach next year's team as a result.

I am supremely frustrated by the team's performance so far this season. I'd really like to see Manning tinker around with lineups and defenses instead of continuing to pound a square peg into a round hole. I get that he loves the idea of a 4-guard lineup because it gets his perceived 4 best players on the court, but that is mitigated by the fact that your 4th best guard playing at PF (extreme example) is not maximizing that player's utility and skillset.
Click to expand...

Too many posters don't understand the highlighted part. When you add late and surprising talent losses, it heightens this factor.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
I’m not sure this first part is correct. Imo, we don’t have an overly talented team. Crawford and Chaundee are the main ones that are great players on our team. Key is good offensively and atrocious defensively. Doral has been pretty good when he stays out of foul trouble. Thompson is really bad. Chill is an okay back up pg, Wilby is a role player maybe on a good team. Sarr, Mitchell, and Eggleston need to progress quickly. Defense from the 3 and 4 (I’m counting Key as the 3 since Chaundee will start at SG next season) and offensive production from the 4 and 5 are the main issues on this team.
Click to expand...

I’m not saying we have Top 25 talent, but we should be a hell of a lot better than 1-4 given the teams we’ve played. That’s all I’m saying with the first part.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
I’m not sure this first part is correct. Imo, we don’t have an overly talented team. Crawford and Chaundee are the main ones that are great players on our team. Key is good offensively and atrocious defensively. Doral has been pretty good when he stays out of foul trouble. Thompson is really bad. Chill is an okay back up pg, Wilby is a role player maybe on a good team. Sarr, Mitchell, and Eggleston need to progress quickly. Defense from the 3 and 4 (I’m counting Key as the 3 since Chaundee will start at SG next season) and offensive production from the 4 and 5 are the main issues on this team.
Click to expand...

This is a fine argument and line of excuses when it comes to our (probable) eventual losses to VT or GT, maybe our team is not talented enough and our front court is waaay too inexperienced for ACC play. But, FFS, Drake, Liberty, etc.? We don't have the talent to compete with those teams?
 
DeacsATS said:
I’m not saying we have Top 25 talent, but we should be a hell of a lot better than 1-4 given the teams we’ve played. That’s all I’m saying with the first part.
Click to expand...

Yeah I mean we definitely have more talent on our team than any team we’ve lost except arguably Houston. I just think there was always going to be an “acclimation period” after Collins and Dinos left and we’re still there, though we’ve made some progress with the last two games. Again, I’d love to see Melo get more minutes and play Sarr and Mitchell at the 4 more than TT. Thompson has been baaaad so may as well play young guys who can still improve.
 
Melo is a wild card at this point. Don’t think he will help much right now. We have too many mid-major guys on the bench I am sorry to say.
 
birdman said:
This is a fine argument and line of excuses when it comes to our (probable) eventual losses to VT or GT, maybe our team is not talented enough and our front court is waaay too inexperienced for ACC play. But, FFS, Drake, Liberty, etc.? We don't have the talent to compete with those teams?
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree. Watching those games, it seemed to me like almost our entire team was a collective deer in headlights. No guards wanted to go for rebounds, defense was terrible, on off shooting nights Key acted like a baby - even getting a tech against Liberty I believe. That’s the “acclimation period” imo, that our guards are still learning to not play with a 4 and 5 who will literally grab almost every rebound. I said it before, an ACC coach should not have to teach his guards to put in effort or rebound the basketball.
 
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