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SPOILERS: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread SPOILERS

So many good fight scenes. Excellent straight up, slapstick, and dark comedy beats. Good use of animals in this film. Nothing was overdone. I thought the porgs would be Ewoky, but they weren't. The Chewy gags were great.
 
DeacHead, I'm no expert on Star Wars physics (like how much gravity there is in space), so take this for what it's worth. Your tactics complaint wasn't bad narrative made sense on two levels: I don't understand the bolded. If you're looking for a response to this specifically, please restate.

First, I'm not sure how else you get that much pay load to land on a target from afar. One bomber took out an entire dreadnaught ship from above. This (delivering heavy ordinance from afar) is a thing we humans are able to do in 2017. Like I said initially, I let this one go, as one has to do with Star Wars because adherence to actual physical laws is not even remotely important to the franchise. In this case, they wanted to add in the trope of WW2 bomber that couldn't deliver the payload so someone sacrifices themself to make it happen.
I moved on from this pretty quickly.


Second, Leia herself criticized Poe for continuing to use these tactics after she ordered him to retreat. She wasn't criticizing tactics, the issue was him disobeying direct orders. If you want to say that disobeying orders was his tactic, then uh, ok. All bombers were lost so scoreboard says this turned out to not be such a great move.

I'm not sure what you mean in the second one. They were tracking the cruiser. They knew where it was not where it was going. Perhaps you could just explain more. The objective was to destroy the Resistance fleet. Hux's plan to achieve that was to let their ships run out of fuel and he'd pick them off. The FO did know where the Resistance was going, Hux was tracking them. The FO knew that, at best, the Resistance could execute one more hyperspace jump. Star Wars doesn't go into the details much, so I'm assuming they have some sort of astral coordinates they use for determining location. That's a pretty safe assumption since they make precise jumps every time we've seen. Hux knows where his fleet is, he knows where the Resistance fleet is. It should be a trivial enough thing to request additional assets at specific coordinates or even have one of the half dozen or so (I didn't count precisely) Star Destroyers with him make the jump just ahead of the fleet. Obviously this can be done because that's what Laura Dern did.

One thing I liked is both sides used good tactics overall and only bested the other through excellent maneuvers (i.e. Hux tracking, Luke's stalling) and Snoke/Leia called out any major screw-ups.

I love how this film echoed many Empire plot points will making them unique. Like Rey leaving her training to confront Kylo Ren was very similar to Luke leaving his training to confront Vader, but it was very much its own thing.

My response is in red above.
 
There's a part of me that believes Rian Johnson thought a few of J.J's ideas were straight up dumb and he just solved them in the quickest ways possible.

1. Rey's heritage. I agree with this one, you don't have to be a Skywalker to have Jedi powers.

2. Snoke. It doesn't matter where he came from if he gets chopped in half like an IDIOT!

3. Kylo's helmet, which i didn't think was that bad but Driver is too good an actor for us not to see his facial expressions.
 
There's a part of me that believes Rian Johnson thought a few of J.J's ideas were straight up dumb and he just solved them in the quickest ways possible.

1. Rey's heritage. I agree with this one, you don't have to be a Skywalker to have Jedi powers.

2. Snoke. It doesn't matter where he came from if he gets chopped in half like an IDIOT!

3. Kylo's helmet, which i didn't think was that bad but Driver is too good an actor for us not to see his facial expressions.

Also my takeaway. Except I wanted to see the deal with snoke. Also driver as a good actor LOL
 
My response is in red above.

I don't think we've ever seen a Star Wars vessel deliver large ordinance over long distances because of the lack of gravity. I assume a large ship has enough gravity that you can drop bombs from directly over it.

Poe's tactics were bad. And he was called out for it. And it connected to the theme of the film.

Hux knew where the cruiser was and that it couldn't go far. That's it.
 
So many good fight scenes. Excellent straight up, slapstick, and dark comedy beats. Good use of animals in this film. Nothing was overdone. I thought the porgs would be Ewoky, but they weren't. The Chewy gags were great.

The scene at the end with the boy subtely moving the broom with the force and wearing the rebel ring was poignant to me
 
It was. Try not to spoil for tapatalk.
 
There's a part of me that believes Rian Johnson thought a few of J.J's ideas were straight up dumb and he just solved them in the quickest ways possible.

1. Rey's heritage. I agree with this one, you don't have to be a Skywalker to have Jedi powers.

2. Snoke. It doesn't matter where he came from if he gets chopped in half like an IDIOT!

3. Kylo's helmet, which i didn't think was that bad but Driver is too good an actor for us not to see his facial expressions.

You’re spot on!! Snoke was a red herring and Rian said just kill him. Rey doesn’t have to come from a lineage to be with the force, and Kylo was allowed to be himself (which was my favorite in this movie). I think this movie was bold for Star Wars and there will be a split down the middle with fans.

Some want Rey to be a solo or Skywalker, others want to know who Snoke is, and others want something similar to TFA in the sense that it connects even more with the originals. TLJ is one of my favorites. I like it much better than TFA because Rian isn’t afraid to try new things, which Star Wars desperately needs.
 
I’ve read some are thinking it ties into Rian’s own triology he’s getting or it could be used for next movie. I’m not sure I’m sold on either of those though.
 
I don't think we've ever seen a Star Wars vessel deliver large ordinance over long distances because of the lack of gravity. I assume a large ship has enough gravity that you can drop bombs from directly over it.

Poe's tactics were bad. And he was called out for it. And it connected to the theme of the film.

Hux knew where the cruiser was and that it couldn't go far. That's it.

My last post on this specific topic. Hux knew where the Resistance fleet was. He knew their speed, he knew the vector they were moving on. Therefore, he knew where they were going and where they would be at any point in time. With this knowledge, another vessel could jump ahead of the fleet and cut them off. Other vessels could jump into flanking positions. If the Resistance fleet does happen to jump in response, then Hux was able to track them and could enact that strategy with no uncertainty as to the outcome the next time since the Resistance could not jump again.
 
Still felt really derivative, but overall enjoyable. Say what you want about Lucas, but basically all the best parts in both of these movies were ripoffs of his stories and concepts. Still played well on the nostalgic heartstrings though.
 
the main complaints I've read so far have been assorted plotholes, the lack of significance given to Snoke or Phasma, and Leia's sendoff

I think most of the plotholes can be explained easily enough with the movie's internal logic, but the Snoke/Phasma stuff bothered me a little too. Snoke reminded me a little of the way the prequels treated Greivous. He was just sorta there, and then he wasn't.

Are we led to believe that the Crimson Guard were the former Knights of Ren?
 
the main complaints I've read so far have been assorted plotholes, the lack of significance given to Snoke or Phasma, and Leia's sendoff

I think most of the plotholes can be explained easily enough with the movie's internal logic, but the Snoke/Phasma stuff bothered me a little too. Snoke reminded me a little of the way the prequels treated Greivous. He was just sorta there, and then he wasn't.

Are we led to believe that the Crimson Guard were the former Knights of Ren?

I didn't catch anything that would lead me to that conclusion. Historically they're elite soldiers, like SEAL Team 6, kinda. Did you notice something indicating they were Ren?

Oh, let's pour a 40 for

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Still felt really derivative, but overall enjoyable. Say what you want about Lucas, but basically all the best parts in both of these movies were ripoffs of his stories and concepts. Still played well on the nostalgic heartstrings though.

The have to move on past the derivative

The glowing reviews confuse me
 
I didn't catch anything that would lead me to that conclusion. Historically they're elite soldiers, like SEAL Team 6, kinda. Did you notice something indicating they were Ren?

There were 8 of them, and the Knights were never mentioned in TLJ, so... Yeah I dunno. If they aren't the Knights of Ren, then where the fuck are the Knights of Ren?
 
I gotta say the complaints perplex me. It seems like people are mad Rion Johnson didn't follow their fan fiction.

the main complaints I've read so far have been assorted plotholes, the lack of significance given to Snoke or Phasma, and Leia's sendoff

I think most of the plotholes can be explained easily enough with the movie's internal logic, but the Snoke/Phasma stuff bothered me a little too. Snoke reminded me a little of the way the prequels treated Greivous. He was just sorta there, and then he wasn't.

Are we led to believe that the Crimson Guard were the former Knights of Ren?

Snoke and Phasma combined for about 5 minutes of screen time in the last film. Snoke served they same role as Han in TFA. Establish Kylo Ren as a formidable villain willing to kill his dad. Phasma was a jobber in TFA simply to put Finn over. Same in this film. Yeah, I'm disappointed they wasted a 6-3 woman stormtrooper leader in a badass uniform. That doesn't mean I was owed some significance from a character I barely knew.

Additional note about Snoke. One thing I dislike about Empire and Return as I've gotten older is how Vader goes from supreme badass in Ep 1 to lackey and kinda wussy in the next two films. Well, they didn't make the same mistake with Kylo Ren. Instead of taking a step back and handing over the lead villain role to Snoke, he grabbed it. Driver put in a hell of a performance as a result.



I didn't catch anything that would lead me to that conclusion. Historically they're elite soldiers, like SEAL Team 6, kinda. Did you notice something indicating they were Ren?

Yeah, the Crimson Guard were simply the Crimson Guard. The Ren are Kylo's boys and it seems like some of them are force wielders. I doubt he'd do them like that.

The have to move on past the derivative

The glowing reviews confuse me

Where is the sweet spot where the film isn't derivative, but still keeps the essence of the franchise?

The meh reviews confuse me.

There were 8 of them, and the Knights were never mentioned in TLJ, so... Yeah I dunno. If they aren't the Knights of Ren, then where the fuck are the Knights of Ren?

They're just not in the films yet. There's only been 4 hours, 48 min of story so far. There's time for more characters.

Maybe Supreme Leader Kylo gets his boys sweet cabinet positions in his administration and they're secondary villains in the next film. I don't know. It is what it is.
 
Thought it was sweet but I'm not a Star Wars nerd really so that's my whole review. Good movie, would watch again.
 
Pretty meh for me, good movie but I didn’t get really much out of it like I was hoping. “Star Wars” is two things to me, the galaxy and the characters. The galaxy part was disappointing. Nothing happened? We saw 2 new planets and one was just a redo of something we’ve seen before. The balance of power in the galaxy is the exact same as it was before. Nothing changed. We’re at the same place we started.

The characters is where I really feel disappointed. Skywalker was great, got everything and more that I wanted there, especially the final scene, I loved that we saw a new part of the force. But I guess he’s dead now with some sort of ascension? Carrie Fisher is dead, so where the hell are they going with Leia? Kylo was strong. Snoke is just WTF? I don’t get that at all. He didn’t even train Kylo? Who the hell was he, just bizarre. I was hoping Finn died the whole movie. He’s terrible. And honestly, I just can’t make myself give a shit about Rey. So she’s not a Solo or Skywalker, fine, but I get nothing out of her. Random chick that hasn’t been trained and is god tier at the force, just stupid IMO. Chewy is cool to see as always but he’s just around for nostalgia now.

I just don’t get where they’re going with it. This movie went no where. Sure, always great to get new Star Wars, but last movie tapped into the nostalgia bank and this one needed to take the series in a direction. Didn’t happen
 
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