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SPOILERS: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread SPOILERS

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Nothing changed? A lot changed. They spelled out what changed. Luke, Kylo, and Yoda specifically explained what changed. The whole status quo from 7 prior films changed. This is no longer an ongoing feud between light and dark, the Jedi and the Sith. This is a war between a cruel empire and a decimated resistance. In TFA, the Empire destroyed the Republic which gave the resistance political cover and financial backing. In this film, the Empire reduced the resistance to a few hundred people (if that) and when the well-respected royal leader of the rebellion asked for help, no one came.

We're not at same place at all. Leia even lays this out early in the film when she admonishes Poe. Until that battle, the rebellion willingly sacrificed soldiers to deadly missions with little thought. Leia explained to Poe that they have so few people and resources that it simply wasn't worth it to destroy the dreadnaught. Poe had the same goal the rebels had through 8 prior films. Destroy something and things will get better.

Destroy the Death Star
Destroy the Emperor
Destroy the shields
Destroy this new Sith guy
Destroy the Separatists
Destroy ??? (Ep III was all over the place)
Destroy Starkiller Base
Get the plans to destroy the Death Star

The rebels/resistance have destroyed plenty and things haven't gotten better.

The whole theme of the film was that it's not going to be about destroying anymore. Leia admonished Poe for destroying the dreadnaught instead of putting life first. Finn and Rose didn't complete their mission because they were betrayed by someone who realized the similarities between both sides and how people were getting rich off both sides. Rose stopped Finn from destroying the battering ram cannon and restated the thesis behind this switch in philosophy:

"That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love."

That's not just a cute line before a kiss. That's laying out the plan going forward. It's a big change. Now the resistance is setting out to save people, to recruit people to the resistance to fight for their loved ones. That's the power of Leia's last line to Rey: "We have everything we need" followed by the shot of the force sensitive stable boy revealing his resistance ring and getting into a fighting stance.
 
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I just hope JJ can wrap up this story in a more pleasing way than he did LOST.

Though killing off so many characters and making this be Kylo vs Rey is going to be pretty boring. If the whole point was like Kylo said "Let go of the past", then that should have been the first movie, so we have 2 movies to take this thing in a new direction. Now the new direction and resolution all come in a single movie and the first two just seem like filler.
 
Screamindemon3 said:
Pretty meh for me, good movie but I didn’t get really much out of it like I was hoping. “Star Wars” is two things to me, the galaxy and the characters. The galaxy part was disappointing. Nothing happened? We saw 2 new planets and one was just a redo of something we’ve seen before. The balance of power in the galaxy is the exact same as it was before. Nothing changed. We’re at the same place we started.

The characters is where I really feel disappointed. Skywalker was great, got everything and more that I wanted there, especially the final scene, I loved that we saw a new part of the force. But I guess he’s dead now with some sort of ascension? Carrie Fisher is dead, so where the hell are they going with Leia? Kylo was strong. Snoke is just WTF? I don’t get that at all. He didn’t even train Kylo? Who the hell was he, just bizarre. I was hoping Finn died the whole movie. He’s terrible. And honestly, I just can’t make myself give a shit about Rey. So she’s not a Solo or Skywalker, fine, but I get nothing out of her. Random chick that hasn’t been trained and is god tier at the force, just stupid IMO. Chewy is cool to see as always but he’s just around for nostalgia now.

I just don’t get where they’re going with it. This movie went no where. Sure, always great to get new Star Wars, but last movie tapped into the nostalgia bank and this one needed to take the series in a direction. Didn’t happen
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Here’s where I’m at. Especially confusing given all the reviews that suggested otherwise. Let’s face it: it was Empre redux.
 
marquee moon said:
Here’s where I’m at. Especially confusing given all the reviews that suggested otherwise. Let’s face it: it was Empre redux.
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It really was. The key change for me was, assuming it’s true, the explanation of Rey’s parentage. That’s pretty significant and moves beyond some dynastic order of the world. Though it’s more similar to Anakin’s origin, so take that FWIW.

The Hoth tropes were a little heavy handed. I honestly think the movie might actually be better without the last 20 minutes. Leave the cliffhanger of everyone fleeing the star destroyer.

I guess you get Luke’s sendoff and Poe’s character development, but that was about it beyond the nostalgic throwbacks to the beginning of Hoth.
 
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Wonder how Leia will be handled in 9.

I was completely surprised when she space wizarded back from death.
 
PhDeac said:
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Nothing changed? A lot changed. They spelled out what changed. Luke, Kylo, and Yoda specifically explained what changed. The whole status quo from 7 prior films changed. This is no longer an ongoing feud between light and dark, the Jedi and the Sith. This is a war between a cruel empire and a decimated resistance. In TFA, the Empire destroyed the Republic which gave the resistance political cover and financial backing. In this film, the Empire reduced the resistance to a few hundred people (if that) and when the well-respected royal leader of the rebellion asked for help, no one came.

We're not at same place at all. Leia even lays this out early in the film when she admonishes Poe. Until that battle, the rebellion willingly sacrificed soldiers to deadly missions with little thought. Leia explained to Poe that they have so few people and resources that it simply wasn't worth it to destroy the dreadnaught. Poe had the same goal the rebels had through 8 prior films. Destroy something and things will get better.

Destroy the Death Star
Destroy the Emperor
Destroy the shields
Destroy this new Sith guy
Destroy the Separatists
Destroy ??? (Ep III was all over the place)
Destroy Starkiller Base
Get the plans to destroy the Death Star

The rebels/resistance have destroyed plenty and things haven't gotten better.

The whole theme of the film was that it's not going to be about destroying anymore. Leia admonished Poe for destroying the dreadnaught instead of putting life first. Finn and Rose didn't complete their mission because they were betrayed by someone who realized the similarities between both sides and how people were getting rich off both sides. Rose stopped Finn from destroying the battering ram cannon and restated the thesis behind this switch in philosophy:

"That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love."

That's not just a cute line before a kiss. That's laying out the plan going forward. It's a big change. Now the resistance is setting out to save people, to recruit people to the resistance to fight for their loved ones. That's the power of Leia's last line to Rey: "We have everything we need" followed by the shot of the force sensitive stable boy revealing his resistance ring and getting into a fighting stance.
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So a 2.5 hour movie and 1/8th of the entire series to move forward with two characters I really don’t even care about get scolded for trying to blow things up. Yeah, just didn’t do it for me. Again, good movie for what it individually is, but it’s just your typical Disney movie with a Star Wars skin on top.
 
I thought it was the best since the original trilogy for sure.
 
PhDeac said:
I gotta say the complaints perplex me. It seems like people are mad Rion Johnson didn't follow their fan fiction.
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I saw it Thursday night and loved it. But in reading people's comments from various places, I think this is spot on. R/starwars is in full meltdown because Rey didn't have special parents or that Snoke isn't the reincarnation of Boba Fett or the Emperor. Some comments suggest it's the worst star wars movie ever.

There was much to like about the film. Carrie Fisher felt more like Leia than she did in TFA. The hyperspace attack was phenomenal. Luke's conclusion was fantastic; it was much better than a simple duel with Kylo.
 
Say Hey Deac said:
I thought it was the best since the original trilogy for sure.
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I think so too. I enjoyed Rogue One a little more than TFA, and I liked TLJ a little more than both of those.

It probably could have been shortened a little. Also not sure how I feel about space Leia. I like the idea of her using the force finally to save herself, but I thought the execution was cheesy. Like Mary Poppins in space cheesy.
 
Longer review: I thought Rogue One was boring but for the very end and, while I liked TFA, I remember a dumb scene with Han and some monsters. I was excited and moved by this one pretty much throughout. It was long, but not slow. Every main character is cool - Rey, Finn, Kylo Ren, Poe - which is the complete opposite of the prequels in which every character sucked balls. I was worried Mark Hamill wasn't going to be able to act, but he was good too, and funny. A lot of fun little creatures and critters. Rian Johnson is the man.
 
People who didn't like it or just thought it was ok must have seen a different movie. I thought it was up there with the best Star Wars movies- it had the great nods to the OT but successfully moved the franchise in a different direction. In all the previous movies, the good guys were against something (the Sith, the Empire, the dark side, the First Order, etc) The Last Jedi changed that dynamic and now the good guys are stand for something i.e. love, the light side, hope, etc.

I thought the characters were great and had good development. I would have liked to know more about Snoke and the scene where Leia floated back was just bad.

I saw it with my 11 year old who was on the edge of his seat the whole time. And regardless of what the fanboys (like me) think, the Star Wars movies are made for kids. Yet at the same time, The Last Jedi offered more than nostalgia for me. I'm ready to see it again.
 
Question for the critics. What would have made this a better movie?

I'm not seeing many criticisms of the casting, acting, or the script, for example.
 
Part of the problem here lies in how the new trilogy was started. JJ Abrams is a master concept creator but his weakness is actually being able to make good on the promise of his concepts. JJ Abrams is a lot of things, but one of his best skills is creating a concept and making people think about it, want more details, dig in deeper. Think about some of his major projects... alias, lost, fringe, cloverfield- all had a level of mystery that whipped fans into a fury of theorycraft. He is a master at giving you tidbits at really intriguing ideas and then letting your mind run wild. He's not as good at actually giving the conclusion. I get the feeling Rian didn't like the conclusion and didn't want to go down that path anymore. Unfortunately, JJ had the fans wrapped up in the mystery he had created for multiple characters to the point that it was all they wanted to know... they needed answers. Who is Snoke, who are Rey's parents, where are the knights of Ren, etc. It is disappointing to the people that had been ensnared by JJ's ability to create intriguing mysteries.

I frankly hope Abrams isn't writing the last installment, or I hope he has help.
 
DEACisGO said:
Part of the problem here lies in how the new trilogy was started. JJ Abrams is a master concept creator but his weakness is actually being able to make good on the promise of his concepts. JJ Abrams is a lot of things, but one of his best skills is creating a concept and making people think about it, want more details, dig in deeper. Think about some of his major projects... alias, lost, fringe, cloverfield- all had a level of mystery that whipped fans into a fury of theorycraft. He is a master at giving you tidbits at really intriguing ideas and then letting your mind run wild. He's not as good at actually giving the conclusion. I get the feeling Rian didn't like the conclusion and didn't want to go down that path anymore. Unfortunately, JJ had the fans wrapped up in the mystery he had created for multiple characters to the point that it was all they wanted to know... they needed answers. Who is Snoke, who are Rey's parents, where are the knights of Ren, etc. It is disappointing to the people that had been ensnared by JJ's ability to create intriguing mysteries.

I frankly hope Abrams isn't writing the last installment, or I hope he has help.
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Well, the question about Rey's parentage may have been answered. It's too bad if people didn't like that answer. And I think the Knights of Ren are going to show up in the next movie. I don't think that Kylo's comment about other students going with him was a throwaway line. I did find Snoke getting killed without any explanation of who he was to be disappointing.
 
PhDeac said:
Question for the critics. What would have made this a better movie?

I'm not seeing many criticisms of the casting, acting, or the script, for example.
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It's objectively good.

If I'm nitpicking:
Kylo is incredibly annoying and frankly weak for a big force baddie
Some of the humor seemed forced to me.
Finn doesn't appear to have a purpose other than filling screen time
I didn't at all like the scenes on the casino planet.
Leia doing space mary poppins
The slow space chase didn't make sense - other craft constantly jumping in and out of the system directly to and from the cruiser but star destroyers couldn't do that? Silly plot device

The pros- more than i choose to write
 
Overall, I still very much enjoyed the film, and I will go see it again.

I really could have done without the whole Hoth pt. 2 scenes. Cool stuff with Luke, but everything else there didn’t add much of anything that couldn’t have happened anywhere else.

I thought the best part of the movie was the bait and switch on Rey’s parentage. Unfortunately for Finn, that was really his entire role to the story that Abrams set out. A stormtrooper is literally just one of the masses. Finn, while a great character, adds basically nothing to the overall theme now.
 
I get the nerds being hypercritical, I certainly am about the LoTR films (and to a lesser extent Harry Potter). I just try to separate the originals from the new ones and judge them on their own merits as best as I can. I don't begrudge the ultrafans their complaints though.

But to me the only real structural problem was the fact that the last 20 minutes were bolted on. It probably could have ended right when they got safe and left it on a cliffhanger.

I liked all the characters. Kylo is an awesome bad guy. Rey is a great hero.

I feel like people who are huge fans of the original movies tend to forget or otherwise choose to ignore they are really simple in structure, a fairly small universe with small themes, and the humor is campy and over the top. All of those things make it easy to love, but also confuse me as to why nothing is good enough as a sequel. If the writers take the story too far into the unknown, there would be complaints it's not canon or unfamiliar. If it's too close, feels cloyingly nostalgic, maybe.
 
There were a few times during the film where i was definitely saying

giphy.gif


but ultimately i'm cooler with it being mysterious and new powers coming up compared to the dumbass scientific explanation in the prequel trilogy
 
Snoke definitely needs to be someone. How does a disfigured dark force guy rise up and just take over the Empire?

He’s gotta be the Emperor or a failed clone or something.
 
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