Danny Manning Credibility Watch

[tigerswood]

I refuse to acknowledge that Bz was a better in-game coach than Manning. Not sure how that has become accepted as fact around here. Bz was a disaster in all aspects of coaching Wake Forest Basketball. We got fucking destroyed with regularity during his tenure... That hasn't happened with Manning (yet). Maybe tonight, but I doubt it.

Just posted in another thread, but in year 4, Bz finished 17-16 with wins over #4 Duke, #19 UNC, a solid NCSU, and twice over ND. Where are we this year? I think we have to consider that Manning may be worse.

Sure we aren't getting blown out as much, especially not getting absolutely embarrassed on the road, but we're winning less games in Manning year 4 than Bz year 4. That, in itself, is terrifying.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

Just posted in another thread, but in year 4, Bz finished 17-16 with wins over #4 Duke, #19 UNC, a solid NCSU, and twice over ND. Where are we this year? I think we have to consider that Manning may be worse.

Sure we aren't getting blown out as much, especially not getting absolutely embarrassed on the road, but we're winning less games in Manning year 4 than Bz year 4. That, in itself, is terrifying.

He's not.

 

[Ayo]

Meh, Notre Dame was pretty bad that year, and our non-conference SOS was ranked #317. The scheduling was clearly an attempt by Ron and Bz to show progress to anyone not paying close attention. But yeah, I agree that the lack of big home wins in 4 years under Manning has been pretty pathetic.

 

[wolfpack30844]

Just posted in another thread, but in year 4, Bz finished 17-16 with wins over #4 Duke, #19 UNC, a solid NCSU, and twice over ND. Where are we this year? I think we have to consider that Manning may be worse.

Sure we aren't getting blown out as much, especially not getting absolutely embarrassed on the road, but we're winning less games in Manning year 4 than Bz year 4. That, in itself, is terrifying.

Agreed on this. Finally glad Coach B is getting a little bit of credit. The program was defintely trending back up. He should have gotten one more year.

I really think Jeff was laying a firm foundation

 

[DeacsATS]

Just posted in another thread, but in year 4, Bz finished 17-16 with wins over #4 Duke, #19 UNC, a solid NCSU, and twice over ND. Where are we this year? I think we have to consider that Manning may be worse.

Sure we aren't getting blown out as much, especially not getting absolutely embarrassed on the road, but we're winning less games in Manning year 4 than Bz year 4. That, in itself, is terrifying.

That is crazy talk.

In his 17-16 season (2014), we beat Duke (#8) & UNC (#29) at the Joel. Those were our ONLY top 50 KP wins that year. That season had a 7 game losing streak in the ACC and HOME losses to #114 GT & #142 BC (way worse than any ACC losses we've have this year). The OOC schedule that year was even worse than this year's. We also lost to Pitt by 29(!) in the ACC Tourney to end the season. After we beat UNC at home, they beat us by 33 in the rematch at the Dean Dome.

And that was the BEST Bz year... 2 top 50 wins. In his other 3 seasons, we had 2 others total.

Those years were fucking terrible.

I realize we only have 1 top 50 win this year (Cuse is #50), but we have at least 7 more chances at that (the next 6 games, in fact).

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Agreed on this. Finally glad Coach B is getting a little bit of credit. The program was defintely trending back up. He should have gotten one more year.

I really think Jeff was laying a firm foundation

This isn't entirely wrong, even for a troll.

We would have had Shelton Mitchell. Isaac Haas would be a Deac 100% fact. He wanted to play for Bzzzz, whether any of you want to admit it or not. We would have kept Cav and Moto. Those are all the positives. Add Shelton and take away Wilbekin. Add Haas and take away Moore/SJM or another center. We'd have a good game coach with a more talented squad this year.

Doesn't change that Bzz was a d bag and incredibly hard to relate to.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

That is crazy talk.

In his 17-16 season (2014), we beat Duke (#8) & UNC (#29) at the Joel. Those were our ONLY top 50 KP wins that year. That season had a 7 game losing streak in the ACC and HOME losses to #114 GT & #142 BC (way worse than any ACC losses we've have this year). The OOC schedule that year was even worse than this year's. We also lost to Pitt by 29(!) in the ACC Tourney to end the season. After we beat UNC at home, they beat us by 33 in the rematch at the Dean Dome.

And that was the BEST Bz year... 2 top 50 wins. In his other 3 seasons, we had 2 others total.

Those years were fucking terrible.

I realize we only have 1 top 50 win this year (Cuse is #50), but we have at least 7 more chances at that (the next 6 games, in fact).

And also not taking into account that Bz had his foundation on that year 4 team - Danny unexpectedly lost the biggest piece to his foundation in Collins, and another large piece to the season in Dinos. It really is just that - crazy talk. It's crazy how people forget how truly awful [Redacted] is and was just because we're having a bad season (caused by a lot of different factors - arguably the biggest factors not being on Manning).

 

[CreamyGoodness]

That is crazy talk.

In his 17-16 season (2014), we beat Duke (#8) & UNC (#29) at the Joel. Those were our ONLY top 50 KP wins that year. That season had a 7 game losing streak in the ACC and HOME losses to #114 GT & #142 BC (way worse than any ACC losses we've have this year). The OOC schedule that year was even worse than this year's. We also lost to Pitt by 29(!) in the ACC Tourney to end the season. After we beat UNC at home, they beat us by 33 in the rematch at the Dean Dome.

And that was the BEST Bz year... 2 top 50 wins. In his other 3 seasons, we had 2 others total.

Those years were fucking terrible.

I realize we only have 1 top 50 win this year (Cuse is #50), but we have at least 7 more chances at that (the next 6 games, in fact).

Granted, that doesn't change anything because we lost to Drake, Ga Southern and Liberty.

 

[wsc8521s]

Never understood the desire to make super shitty things seem less bad than they actually were

 

[Ayo]

This isn't entirely wrong, even for a troll.

We would have had Shelton Mitchell. Isaac Haas would be a Deac 100% fact. He wanted to play for Bzzzz, whether any of you want to admit it or not. We would have kept Cav and Moto. Those are all the positives. Add Shelton and take away Wilbekin. Add Haas and take away Moore/SJM or another center. We'd have a good game coach with a more talented squad this year.

Doesn't change that Bzz was a d bag and incredibly hard to relate to.

Lol, what is this nonsense? Haas decommitted from Wake and signed with Purdue on Signing Day when Bz was still the coach. And Bz is a "good" game coach now? Holy freaking hell, y'all. Absolutely ridiculous post.

 

[pourdeac]

Manning Year 3: 19-14, 9-9 in conference. Bz never came close to that.

Then there's the rebounding stats...almost last in the nation under Bz. Bz Y1: 315/338 (rebounding margin). Y2: 305/338. Even with a short team, we're 153/365 this year.

 

[DeacsATS]

This isn't entirely wrong, even for a troll.

We would have had Shelton Mitchell. Isaac Haas would be a Deac 100% fact. He wanted to play for Bzzzz, whether any of you want to admit it or not. We would have kept Cav and Moto. Those are all the positives. Add Shelton and take away Wilbekin. Add Haas and take away Moore/SJM or another center. We'd have a good game coach with a more talented squad this year.

Doesn't change that Bzz was a d bag and incredibly hard to relate to.

No. No. No.

Stop trying to revise the past in order to make Manning look worse.

Also, you could argue that Shelton Mitchell is not even as good as Mitchell Wilbekin. At least Wilbekin has one skill (3 point shooting). Shelton is just OK at a lot of things.

 

[wfu22fan]

Meh, Notre Dame was pretty bad that year, and our non-conference SOS was ranked #317. The scheduling was clearly an attempt by Ron and Bz to show progress to anyone not paying close attention. But yeah, I agree that the lack of big home wins in 4 years under Manning has been pretty pathetic.

IIRC, we beat #1 Miami and top 10 NCSU at home in year 3 of the Bzzaster. Manning has recruited MUCH better and we compete in and lead in the second half of almost every game under Manning. Very few beat downs. Just can’t get it done down the stretch.

 

[tigerswood]

Please note, my post was not saying that Manning is as bad as Bz. Last year was light year's ahead of any season we had under that clown. However, this year's regression is alarming, regardless of our departures, and is even more alarming (to me) when compared with year 4 under Bz.

 

[DeacsATS]

IIRC, we beat #1 Miami and top 10 NCSU at home in year 3 of the Bzzaster. Manning has recruited MUCH better and we compete in and lead in the second half of almost every game under Manning. Very few beat downs. Just can’t get it done down the stretch.

Miami - #13
NCSU - #33
UVA - #41

So my bad on the post from before. Bz had 5 top 50 wins in 4 years. Zero in year 1, zero in year 2, 3 in year 3, and 2 in year 4.

 

[wfu22fan]

Agreed on this. Finally glad Coach B is getting a little bit of credit. The program was defintely trending back up. He should have gotten one more year.

I really think Jeff was laying a firm foundation

You are nuts if you really believe that.

 

[DeacsATS]

Please note, my post was not saying that Manning is as bad as Bz. Last year was light year's ahead of any season we had under that clown. However, this year's regression is alarming, regardless of our departures, and is even more alarming (to me) when compared with year 4 under Bz.

Gotcha.

I agree that 17-16 makes it look OK, but if you dig a little deeper that season still sucked. The best part about it was when we beat Duke and people around here couldn't even be happy because it made us worry that Bz was going to get another year.

 

[wfu22fan]

Miami - #13
NCSU - #33
UVA - #41

So my bad on the post from before. Bz had 5 top 50 wins in 4 years. Zero in year 1, zero in year 2, 3 in year 3, and 2 in year 4.

No, Miami was ranked 1 or 2 at the time we beat them. We stormed the court. I’m sure of that.

 

[Ayo]

Yeah, Miami was #2 at the time. CJ Harris went for like 30 in that game. NC State was ranked somewhere in the lower top 25, like #21, when we beat them in Year 3 of Bz. Too lazy to look it up. That was Devin's coming-out party game.

 

[tigerswood]

No. No. No.

Stop trying to revise the past in order to make Manning look worse.

Also, you could argue that Shelton Mitchell is not even as good as Mitchell Wilbekin. At least Wilbekin has one skill (3 point shooting). Shelton is just OK at a lot of things.

That would be a tough argument to win. Shelton is averaging 12 points and 4 assists game having a bad shooting year. Last year, he averaged 11 points, 46% FG, 43% 3FG, 3.6 AST, 2 TO.

In Wilbekin's best year ever (this year) he's averaging 8.8 points, 39% FG, 43% 3FG, 1.5 AST, .7 TO. Shelton is also a far better defender.