Danny Manning Credibility Watch

[06deacon]

So being better than 85% of the teams playing college basketball ="not really good?" What would it take to be "really good?"

That’s a lousy metric. We’re better than like 70% of division 1 teams this year. Who cares?

 

[Why the Deac Not]

Tough night for the superfans of Buzz and Keats. NC State gets a critical inbounds stolen a la Childress, then even worse the players didn't know they were out of timeouts and they draw a game-losing technical.

Then VaTech goes up 20 in the 2nd half against Notre Dame, hitting a 99% win percentage in the process... And continues jacking shots while giving up 50 to lose, including a 7 minute stretch with no field goals in the last quarter of the game.

Ha, fuck those guys. Schadenfreude is all there is left to enjoy in this postseason...

At least DC is much better at his devil's advocacy than RChill. I mean there are arguments both ways, but it's pretty obvious Manning will not be able to sustain any level of success he might achieve (such as last year or a hot run before the tourney like Tulsa). There seems to be a reason better players are not choosing to play for DM. This pick n' roll dependent, wear out your big man, stagnant off the ball system is not really that attractive to kids who want to play a more dynamic brand of BB. You'd think at the very least we could attract a stud, break-your-ankles type of PG to play in this heavy pnr system...but we can't even do that. Crawford is a tweener who can pass really well when he's passing to an athletic freak who can pretty much dunk it or catch and lay it in within an 8 foot radius of the hoop.

 

[donaldross]

Yeah, at this point I think Wes would be a big upgrade. Building a 7k seat arena doesn't seem that possible. Win and we will bring people back to the joel, lose and it doesn't matter where we play people wont show. What would be more embarrassing to show a recruit than a 1/3 filled 7k arena?

Just so we’re clear I absolutely disagree with you about this. I’m furious with Wellman but much madder at alums like you. Our losing is directly your fault long term for spitting BS like this out. It’s your fault.

 

[Milhouse]

So being better than 85% of the teams playing college basketball ="not really good?" What would it take to be "really good?"

top 25 teams are really good. bubble teams are not.

jesus christ how low are your expectations?

 

[WFU Lurker]

6/15 ACC teams were higher ranked in KP than Wake, 5/14 SEC teams, 3/12 Pac12 teams, 3/14 Big Ten teams, 7/10 of Big 12 teams, 5/10 Big East teams, and 2/12 AAC teams (I guess they are high major?). That would make Wake 32nd out of 87.

(FYI- non high majors better than Wake was: Gonzaga, Wichita State, St Mary's, Rhode Island)

 

[Ayo]

Always comical to me that people use all 351 teams to try to prop us up. As if Maryland Eastern Shore or Incarnate Word are worth a damn. There are like 100 teams worth looking at. So yeah, we were pretty much bottom 10% this year and slightly above average last year (despite not making the Field of 64).

 

[Why the Deac Not]

17-15 and NIT if we were lucky

In this ACC?? We would have been better than half the conference with John Collins back. But you wouldn't see the same progression with Doral. Danny hates playing two good bigs together apparently unless one of them can shoot the long ball. I'd say we would've gone 10-2 non-conf at least, then probably 9-9 or 10-8 with some luck even tho the potential would be higher thanks to JC as it would make both Crawford and Woods better. I think Chaundee might have been a weak-side beast (totally underused and mis-used by Manning IMO) with Collins attracting so much attention on the block.

Against this watered down conference in which Duke and Carolina are under-performing considerably relative to their talent (per the recruiting rankings), we should have 7 wins this year w/out Collins.

 

[wsc8521s]

I don't disagree. That was factoring in our coach significantly weighing down our performance.

6/15 ACC teams were higher ranked in KP than Wake, 5/14 SEC teams, 3/12 Pac12 teams, 3/14 Big Ten teams, 7/10 of Big 12 teams, 5/10 Big East teams, and 2/12 AAC teams (I guess they are high major?). That would make Wake 32nd out of 87.

(FYI- non high majors better than Wake was: Gonzaga, Wichita State, St Mary's, Rhode Island)

AAC is a huge stretch. But even without them, our record (once again) unfortunately did not live up to our KP ranking.

Even so, 32nd out of 75 probably is right about slightly above average. Not a great accomplishment by any means

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Yeah, at this point I think Wes would be a big upgrade. Building a 7k seat arena doesn't seem that possible. Win and we will bring people back to the joel, lose and it doesn't matter where we play people wont show. What would be more embarrassing to show a recruit than a 1/3 filled 7k arena?

Just so we’re clear I absolutely disagree with you about this. I’m furious with Wellman but much madder at alums like you. Our losing is directly your fault long term for spitting BS like this out. It’s your fault.

Damn it, Catamount, you dick!

 

[WFU Lurker]

I don't disagree. That was factoring in our coach significantly weighing down our performance.



AAC is a huge stretch. But even without them, our record (once again) unfortunately did not live up to our KP ranking.

Even so, 32nd out of 75 probably is right about slightly above average. Not a great accomplishment by any means

Well, 30th out of 75, but, yeah, that's slightly above average. And, ultimately the record does matter more than Kenpom because we celebrate wins, not efficiences. So, as far as that goes, I counted 7 Big East teams with 20 or more wins, 9 ACC teams, 6 Pac12 teams, 8 Big Ten teams, and 7 Big 12 teams. That would put as at 37th out of 75. Quite average indeed.

 

[DCDeac]

Since there's no actual chance we hire Wes Miller this year it doesn't really matter, and maybe DR's dogged repetition really is working, but it's not like any high school or even the vast majority of college players give two shits about him or even know who he is. He's just another coach in an awful conference who's about to get killed in a first round game.

Sure, keeping Manning may mean we are bad again next year, and hiring Miller could mean he energizes the program and talks all the players and recruits into staying, coaches his balls off and we rocket towards success.

But it's also pretty likely that regardless of what Manning does, based on how Manning recruits (path to get paid) we'd lose the top 2 recruits and probably Crawford and maybe Chaundee. Then you look up and you've got nobody Wes Miller coaching Chill/Wright/Melo/Sarr/Moore with no bench in his ACC debut. Then he'd be starting recruiting from scratch. Even if a guy like him is the answer, a Bennett-like coaching effort would be starting with much less talent, so you're looking at another 2+ year stretch of hot garbage Wake Forest basketball.

I can't help but notice Mike Brey lost 7 straight with Bonzi out and Farrell hurting or out, then they were better with Farrell back at 100%, then Bonzi comes back and they look like a top 10 team again. It's almost like the players are far more important than the coach, but I know it's really just that Brey had a bad run of calling good timeouts and drawing up winning plays in the middle of the season.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

Damn it, Catamount, you dick!

Must spread rep

 

[thatguy2016]

I can't help but notice Mike Brey lost 7 straight with Bonzi out and Farrell hurting or out, then they were better with Farrell back at 100%, then Bonzi comes back and they look like a top 10 team again. It's almost like the players are far more important than the coach, but I know it's really just that Brey had a bad run of calling good timeouts and drawing up winning plays in the middle of the season.

beat Manning's team in Winston without Colson

 

[WFU Lurker]

Whether you blame it on talent, coaching, or both (hint - last one is the right answer), 11 wins in year 4 is pretty damning.

 

[buckets]

lol Mike Brey and this ND is like the worst example of players mattering more than a coach

 

[Ayo]

beat Manning's team in Winston without Colson

We'll get 'em next year without Colson and Farrell! Oh wait, we have to play them on the road next year. Never mind.

 

[netflixnchildres]

I can't help but notice Mike Brey lost 7 straight with Bonzi out and Farrell hurting or out, then they were better with Farrell back at 100%, then Bonzi comes back and they look like a top 10 team again. It's almost like the players are far more important than the coach, but I know it's really just that Brey had a bad run of calling good timeouts and drawing up winning plays in the middle of the season.

Mike Brey has made a postseason tournament 20 of the last 21 years. Mike Brey has won 20 or more games 14 of 18 seasons at Notre Dame. Mike Brey has 13 NCAA tournament wins in 18 seasons at Notre Dame. Guess what, and this is the real kicker .... MIKE BREY HAS HAD PLAYERS GRADUATE AND LEAVE TO GO PRO EVERY YEAR HE HAS BEEN AT NOTRE DAME! AMAZING HE STILL GETS THOSE RESULTS.

 

[DeaconSig]

Since there's no actual chance we hire Wes Miller this year it doesn't really matter, and maybe DR's dogged repetition really is working, but it's not like any high school or even the vast majority of college players give two shits about him or even know who he is. He's just another coach in an awful conference who's about to get killed in a first round game.

Sure, keeping Manning may mean we are bad again next year, and hiring Miller could mean he energizes the program and talks all the players and recruits into staying, coaches his balls off and we rocket towards success.

But it's also pretty likely that regardless of what Manning does, based on how Manning recruits (path to get paid) we'd lose the top 2 recruits and probably Crawford and maybe Chaundee. Then you look up and you've got nobody Wes Miller coaching Chill/Wright/Melo/Sarr/Moore with no bench in his ACC debut. Then he'd be starting recruiting from scratch. Even if a guy like him is the answer, a Bennett-like coaching effort would be starting with much less talent, so you're looking at another 2+ year stretch of hot garbage Wake Forest basketball.

I can't help but notice Mike Brey lost 7 straight with Bonzi out and Farrell hurting or out, then they were better with Farrell back at 100%, then Bonzi comes back and they look like a top 10 team again. It's almost like the players are far more important than the coach, but I know it's really just that Brey had a bad run of calling good timeouts and drawing up winning plays in the middle of the season.

Jesus this is fucking stupid.

 

[DCDeac]

Mike Brey has made a postseason tournament 20 of the last 21 years. Mike Brey has won 20 or more games 14 of 18 seasons at Notre Dame. Mike Brey has 13 NCAA tournament wins in 18 seasons at Notre Dame. Guess what, and this is the real kicker .... MIKE BREY HAS HAD PLAYERS GRADUATE AND LEAVE TO GO PRO EVERY YEAR HE HAS BEEN AT NOTRE DAME! AMAZING HE STILL GETS THOSE RESULTS.

You're just agreeing with me.

 

[DeacinBama]

But it's also pretty likely that regardless of what Manning does, based on how Manning recruits (path to get paid) we'd lose the top 2 recruits and probably Crawford and maybe Chaundee. Then you look up and you've got nobody Wes Miller coaching Chill/Wright/Melo/Sarr/Moore with no bench in his ACC debut. Then he'd be starting recruiting from scratch. Even if a guy like him is the answer, a Bennett-like coaching effort would be starting with much less talent, so you're looking at another 2+ year stretch of hot garbage Wake Forest basketball.

I would have thought that Wake fans would have learned by now that you don't hire/fire somebody based upon what would happen to committed recruits. If you believe that Manning stinks and Miller, for example, is the answer, then who cares if Chaundee leaves and Hoard decommits? Get the right coach and everything else will work itself out.