Danny Manning Credibility Watch

[CharlotteDeac1]

We won fewer games in Y4 than in Y1. You can't blame that on John Collins leaving early.

It's a combination of a few things, but attrition is a major factor keeping us from your "progression each year" comment.

 

[buckets]

AGAIN I ask.... do you guys really think we would taken a big step forward from last season if JC had stayed?

 

[wsc8521s]

17-15 and NIT if we were lucky

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

AGAIN I ask.... do you guys really think we would taken a big step forward from last season if JC had stayed?

Considering the dude is tearing up the NBA right now, we would've been as good or better yeah. If Doral had the same progression he had this year and JC had the same progression of being able to play away from the basket, allowing them to play together, we would've been really fucking good.

Hypothetical though, so doesn't really matter.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

17-15 and NIT if we were lucky

why does this make any sense at all

 

[Atlanta Deacon]

We would have taken a step forward. We would have had a player of the year candidate and someone who can actually rebound. I doubt we are a sweet 16 team, because we still would have been awful on defense, but we would have been a fringe top 25 team and probably laid an egg in the real second round of the tournament.

 

[Colonel Angus]

AGAIN I ask.... do you guys really think we would taken a big step forward from last season if JC had stayed?

What's the definition of "a big step forward"? ACC Championship? No. Final Four? No.

But with the weaker OOC schedule and Dinos/Collins returning, this team would have finished top half of the conference and would be comfortably in the NCAA's as a 7/8 seed at worst.

And that's taking Manning's ineptitude into account.

 

[WFU Lurker]

It's a combination of a few things, but attrition is a major factor keeping us from your "progression each year" comment.

Fair. Problem is we have only progressed one year. And now we are right back where we started.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

AGAIN I ask.... do you guys really think we would taken a big step forward from last season if JC had stayed?

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

Fair. Problem is we have only progressed one year. And now we are right back where we started.

I agree with that, but we progressed earlier (and more) than I anticipated when we hired Manning in year three. It sucks a fat one that we took a step back this year and there are multiple reasons for that, including Manning. I strongly believe that if the last two season were reversed the fans would be happy at the moment and feel good about where Danny is taking us. This is also a hypothetical so it has minimal meaning.

 

[WFUWaldo]

AGAIN I ask.... do you guys really think we would taken a big step forward from last season if JC had stayed?

Yes. Given how he's played in the NBA, it's almost certain he would have been an All-American and a NPOY candidate. One superstar in basketball can make an enormous difference.

 

[deacfan123]

I agree with that, but we progressed earlier (and more) than I anticipated when we hired Manning in year three. It sucks a fat one that we took a step back this year and there are multiple reasons for that, including Manning. I strongly believe that if the last two season were reversed the fans would be happy at the moment and feel good about where Danny is taking us. This is also a hypothetical so it has minimal meaning.

You mean to tell me that a fanbase is more optimistic coming off of an NCAA tournament vs. an 11 win season and no postseason? Well I'll be damned.

 

[DeacsATS]

It's tough for me to understand people who think that we both:
1) Underachieved in 2016-17
yet
2) Would not have been MUCH better this year w/ Collins (& Dinos)

I'm not arguing anything about Manning's competency as coach... I just think those two points of view are logically conflicted.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

You mean to tell me that a fanbase is more optimistic coming off of an NCAA tournament vs. an 11 win season and no postseason? Well I'll be damned.

lol, meant that we would've seen steady progression each year. For rebuilding purposes, pretty sure it'd look better to go 120->118->91->36 than 120->118->36->91 solely for optics though its the same results just different order.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

It's tough for me to understand people who think that we both:
1) Underachieved in 2016-17
yet
2) Would not have been MUCH better this year w/ Collins (& Dinos)

I'm not arguing anything about Manning's competency as coach... I just think those two points of view are logically conflicted.

Most arguments spouted here are logically conflicted, if we're being honest.

 

[wakelaw13]

I thought we were a really good team in an excellent conference last year. We were trash this year, and I think a lot of my frustration is I have no idea why. Last season we moved the ball well, shot it very well, guys played aggressively and got to the line. I get that a lot of that had to do with the monster Collins was down low. But not having Collins doesn’t mean guys can’t move and get open or play as a team. I’ve come to the conclusion Manning was just as bad of a coach, but having a guy like Collins covered him.

 

[deacfan123]

Maybe Austin Arians was better than we all thought

 

[WFU Lurker]

lol, meant that we would've seen steady progression each year. For rebuilding purposes, pretty sure it'd look better to go 120->118->91->36 than 120->118->36->91 solely for optics though its the same results just different order.

It’s a bit of a stretch to call that a steady progression. 36 is still an outlier.

Under that scenario, there’s a chance Manning wouldn’t even make it to year 4.

 

[RJKarl]

I thought we were a really good team in an excellent conference last year. We were trash this year, and I think a lot of my frustration is I have no idea why. Last season we moved the ball well, shot it very well, guys played aggressively and got to the line. I get that a lot of that had to do with the monster Collins was down low. But not having Collins doesn’t mean guys can’t move and get open or play as a team. I’ve come to the conclusion Manning was just as bad of a coach, but having a guy like Collins covered him.

Last year, we had three guys who were high level college scorers in JC, Dinos and Arians. Each was always ready to score and also understood offense, By having those guys, Key and even Wilbekin had constant open shots and took them.

This year, Doral had a very good year, but he was a one-trick pony. JC played primarily inside last year but was far more mobile and had the ability to do much more than dunk. This made Doral easier to defend.

Key was good until he got hurt. Wilbekin had many more issues due being able to be covered easier. Because of not having two of Arians, Dinos, JC on the court, it was much more difficult for Key and Wilbekin which made their weaknesses more obvious.

By having multiple, good options, there was much more space for Craw to operate. Last year if they sagged like they did this year, he 2-3 fine lanes to deliver the ball. Defenses were able to key on him more this year.

I'm not saying Danny is a world-beater as a coach, but not to give credit for JC's improvement is just wrong.

JC alone didn't make us a Top 10 offense last year.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

It’s a bit of a stretch to call that a steady progression. 36 is still an outlier.

Under that scenario, there’s a chance Manning wouldn’t even make it to year 4.

Cronin, the coach discussed earlier, went from 141->102->86->68 which is more steady progression but not seeing as "high of a high" we had in the first four years. I can see how Cronin's progression being steady with no outliers could be more reassuring though.