• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Official 2018 NBA Offseason Thread: the preseason cometh

People always mention the hand check thing but never the change in the illegal defense rules. Being able to load up the strong side Thibodeau style against Jordan would have been more helpful than hand checking, especially since he couldn't shoot 3s at all (32% for his career, 24% (!) if you take out the 3 years when the NBA had went to the shorter 3 point line).
 
Nostalgia? It’s not like people are looking back and trying to find a GOAT. Jordan earned GOAT status after his first three peat and he hasn’t lost it.
 
Nostalgia? It’s not like people are looking back and trying to find a GOAT. Jordan earned GOAT status after his first three peat and he hasn’t lost it.

People remember greatness, they don’t remember that he couldn’t shoot from deep or that he got one of the most favorable whistles in history for a decade. The same thing will happen to LeBron and in 2030 this won’t even be an argument.
 
People remember greatness, they don’t remember that he couldn’t shoot from deep or that he got one of the most favorable whistles in history for a decade. The same thing will happen to LeBron and in 2030 this won’t even be an argument.

 
I don’t think people would be so closed off to the idea that Lebron > Jordan without Space Jam. Those were special effects, people forget that.
 
I don’t think people would be so closed off to the idea that Lebron > Jordan without Space Jam. Those were special effects, people forget that.

I've never seen Space Jam. Gen X was grown when it came out.

I get the whole Lebron deal. Every generation needs their GOAT. But nobody argued against Jordan because his accomplishments were unassailable. Lebron may get there, but he's not there yet.
 
I put Jordan as a clear #1 over Lebron and here's why:

DETAIL.

Jordan was a late bloomer, who was cut from his high school team as a frosh or soph. He developed by growing and obviously had elite athleticism, but he had to work for his spot at 12. Jordan was an incredible student of the game and his attention to detail was Tim Duncanesque.

Lebron, on the other hand, was a huge elite basketball player at 12. He was already a guaranteed NBA player. Because of this, Lebron is not as focused on detail as he should be. That is not to say he doesn't have an elite feel for the game. He reminds me of Oscar Robertson that way. However, time and time again, he relies on his elite size and athleticism. Game 6 vs. the Spurs where Ray Allen hit his last second corner shot proves my point. Lebron makes a careless turnover as SA moves to close out ther series. Lebron cannot react in the moment to the first defender he's ever faced who can meet him athletically and is relentlessly ON HIM. He's still got size on Kawhi, but in the clutch, he commits two huge turnovers. Jordan committed key turnovers too, so that is not my point here. Rather, in the huddle with the Heat down 5, Spo draws up a play for Lebron to take a 3 at the top of the key, which is one of the most efficient 3 point shots (other than the corner), there is. But Lebron is distracted, distressed by his TOs, and he's half paying attention. This is NOT a mistake Jordan would make. The play rolls out and Lebron uses a pick to take his 3-pointer, but he IS NOT at the top of the key. He's three steps off to the side, significantly reducing his %. He bricks the shot. Badly, but fortunately the ricochet ends up with Bosh who throws it desperately to Lebron who hits the 2nd 3-pointer - a crazy difficult shot, btw. As an aside, after Lebron's 2nd horrific TO, he points at Bosh sheepishly, implying that it was Bosh's fault. It wasn't. It is also proof that in this moment, Lebron is falling apart a bit and is unfocused. It is also a weakness that Lebron has showed in huge moments from time to time: Failure is due to a teammate not doing something they were supposed to do. Usually Lebron atones for this mistake after the game by taking ownership, but I consider this another product of always being the best player in the gym since he was 12. You don't make mistakes, inferior teammates do.

Anywho - Jordan would never ever in a million years not hit his spot. Jordan would insist on getting to whatever spot he KNOWS he is most efficient shooting from, and most likely, he's been on the sidelines visualizing what he is about to do. I don't get the sense that Lebron plays that way.

Lebron is still the 2nd best player of all time, but I would love to see him finish out his career with an elite coach who would insist on attention to detail. I am looking at you Pop.

Until then, Jordan's attention to detail is why he is clearly the best of all time. Not the guy you want to be your top dog in the locker room and definitely not the guy you want to be stuck in a tent with for a week. That guy would be Lebron. But we are not having best teammate argument, but rather, best of all time.
 
Last edited:
This discussion speaks to the fact that Round 2 of this year's playoffs have not been competitive. Jordan vs. James feels like a July discussion.

How does everyone see the rest of the playoffs going?

Celtics/Cavs should be a good series, but feels like either of GSW/HOU would beat the EC winner in 5.

Having watched most of the playoffs thus far, I still don't see how HOU beats GSW. GSW just seems to have too many weapons on offense, while HOU needs Harden to be filthy every night. Also, Harden & Paul both seem to have more than their fair share of shitty games come playoff time.

Give me:
Celtics in 7
Warriors in 6

NBA Finals: Warriors in 5
 
I'm curious as to the age breakdown on the Lebron v. Jordan argument. Was anyone who thinks is better born before 1985? Cause I don't think there is anyone who watched Jordan in his prime (and wasn't a little kid) who would pick Lebron.

I wouldn't hesitate to take Lebron over MJ.

P.S. Where's wakephan09 to cry about dropping words here?
 
I've never seen Space Jam. Gen X was grown when it came out.

I get the whole Lebron deal. Every generation needs their GOAT. But nobody argued against Jordan because his accomplishments were unassailable. Lebron may get there, but he's not there yet.

Yeah, put me in the never seen Space Jam but prefers Jordan group.

Aside from the physical play, the 80s/90s players hated each other. They all wanted to beat Jordan yet couldn't. While Lebron's performance this playoffs has been impressive for sure, I have to take it with a grain of salt as DeRozen and Lowry have always been too much in awe of him and more wanting to ask for his autograph than try to beat him. He is so much in their heads it isn't funny. As much as I dislike the Sixers, I think they would have put up a better fight than Toronto in this round, Toronto is just mentally weak against Lebron.

Speaking of which, does Dwayne Casey get canned after this series? They have to blow that mess up, right? Or do they wait to see if LeBron goes West and then try to make one more run with this core?
 
I'm curious as to the age breakdown on the Lebron v. Jordan argument. Was anyone who thinks is better born before 1985? Cause I don't think there is anyone who watched Jordan in his prime (and wasn't a little kid) who would pick Lebron.

I was born in '77 and watched Jordan in his prime and Bron is better.
 
This discussion speaks to the fact that Round 2 of this year's playoffs have not been competitive. Jordan vs. James feels like a July discussion.

How does everyone see the rest of the playoffs going?

Celtics/Cavs should be a good series, but feels like either of GSW/HOU would beat the EC winner in 5.

Having watched most of the playoffs thus far, I still don't see how HOU beats GSW. GSW just seems to have too many weapons on offense, while HOU needs Harden to be filthy every night. Also, Harden & Paul both seem to have more than their fair share of shitty games come playoff time.

Give me:
Celtics in 7
Warriors in 6

NBA Finals: Warriors in 5

That looks right. Maybe the Cavs win in 6 or 7 but the rest is highly likely.

Lebron is going to kill it with the Rockets next year. The healthy C’s will dominate the East.
 
Isn't it almost impossible to Lebron to Houston without completely blowing up the rest of the team and going all scrubs?
 
Isn't it almost impossible to Lebron to Houston without completely blowing up the rest of the team and going all scrubs?

Unless, he and Chris agree to play for almost nothing.

Hell, they have $20M for Ryan Anderson.

What makes it even worse is that Capela will be a FA after next season. Unless Frattita is willing to pay massive luxury taxes, they will only have a great team for a year or two...and only then if they can get someone to takes Anderson's contract and probably Gordon's as well.
 
I put Jordan as a clear #1 over Lebron and here's why:

DETAIL.

Jordan was a late bloomer, who was cut from his high school team as a frosh or soph. He developed by growing and obviously had elite athleticism, but he had to work for his spot at 12. Jordan was an incredible student of the game and his attention to detail was Tim Duncanesque.

Lebron, on the other hand, was a huge elite basketball player at 12. He was already a guaranteed NBA player. Because of this, Lebron is not as focused on detail as he should be. That is not to say he doesn't have an elite feel for the game. He reminds me of Oscar Robertson that way. However, time and time again, he relies on his elite size and athleticism. Game 6 vs. the Spurs where Ray Allen hit his last second corner shot proves my point. Lebron makes a careless turnover as SA moves to close out ther series. Lebron cannot react in the moment to the first defender he's ever faced who can meet him athletically and is relentlessly ON HIM. He's still got size on Kawhi, but in the clutch, he commits two huge turnovers. Jordan committed key turnovers too, so that is not my point here. Rather, in the huddle with the Heat down 5, Spo draws up a play for Lebron to take a 3 at the top of the key, which is one of the most efficient 3 point shots (other than the corner), there is. But Lebron is distracted, distressed by his TOs, and he's half paying attention. This is NOT a mistake Jordan would make. The play rolls out and Lebron uses a pick to take his 3-pointer, but he IS NOT at the top of the key. He's three steps off to the side, significantly reducing his %. He bricks the shot. Badly, but fortunately the ricochet ends up with Bosh who throws it desperately to Lebron who hits the 2nd 3-pointer - a crazy difficult shot, btw. As an aside, after Lebron's 2nd horrific TO, he points at Bosh sheepishly, implying that it was Bosh's fault. It wasn't. It is also proof that in this moment, Lebron is falling apart a bit and is unfocused. It is also a weakness that Lebron has showed in huge moments from time to time: Failure is due to a teammate not doing something they were supposed to do. Usually Lebron atones for this mistake after the game by taking ownership, but I consider this another product of always being the best player in the gym since he was 12. You don't make mistakes, inferior teammates do.

Anywho - Jordan would never ever in a million years not hit his spot. Jordan would insist on getting to whatever spot he KNOWS he is most efficient shooting from, and most likely, he's been on the sidelines visualizing what he is about to do. I don't get the sense that Lebron plays that way.

Lebron is still the 2nd best player of all time, but I would love to see him finish out his career with an elite coach who would insist on attention to detail. I am looking at you Pop.

Until then, Jordan's attention to detail is why he is clearly the best of all time. Not the guy you want to be your top dog in the locker room and definitely not the guy you want to be stuck in a tent with for a week. That guy would be Lebron. But we are not having best teammate argument, but rather, best of all time.

This post is peak jaybone. I don’t agree with the premise but you jokers better not run him off again.
 
Unless, he and Chris agree to play for almost nothing.

Hell, they have $20M for Ryan Anderson.

What makes it even worse is that Capela will be a FA after next season. Unless Frattita is willing to pay massive luxury taxes, they will only have a great team for a year or two...and only then if they can get someone to takes Anderson's contract and probably Gordon's as well.

There's no way CP is going to agree to playing for anything but max after negotiating the CBA
 
When you start having the GOAT discussion in basketball I don't think you can definitively name one guy - it is too hard to compare directly given different positions, different skill sets, different competitive eras, even different rules at times. To some extent in comes down to personal preference.
I watched Jordan in his prime and have watched Lebron - I would pick Jordan in a close call right now. They're both amazing and it is easy to defend either choice.
I am not old enough to have watch Oscar Robertson play and I watched Kareem but mostly past his prime. Kareem has a pretty good argument as well.
 
Back
Top