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Possible Wake Forest Coaching Candidates Analysis

Wakeforest22890 said:
Well it undermines the argument that nobody would be talking about Wes if it weren't for his Wake connections. People with experience in the industry and who follow it full time are mentioning him as a good option for another ACC school.

Re: UMBC's tournament win. I put far more stock in where the team is overall over the course of a season, where the team's trajectory is, and how good the team is relative to the rest of the country than I do in sample size one games. In 2009, Brad Stevens lost back to back games to two teams outside the top 150 in KP does that mean that we should count these games more than any of his others in the regular season? Of course not.

The UMBC win last year was impressive. No doubt. But if you hire a guy for Wake because his team pulled off the 1 in 100 chance even though his team has never been a top 150 team I don't know what you're expecting compared to a guy who actually has a top 100 team. And yeah I realize that I'm discussing this with some people who think KP is trash and the ratings don't matter. To that, I continue to say: that's also dumb.
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ZERO for 25 against Top 25. By accident, he should have a couple of wins.

Settling for HOF Miller or Odom would be a huge, huge, huge disappointment.
 
Currie hired Weber and faced a lot of criticism for it. Several years later it looks like a solid hire. Not sure he will go the Young Turk route.
 
I didn't cast my lot for Wes as the number one guy. There's a reason the home run hire tier is ahead of the Wes tier. If we strike out on the top tier guys I think Wes is a great selection. This was also the calculus before Currie came on board - I think we can and will set our sights on some bigger names than Ron would have.

Odom is not at a mid major. Odom is at a very low major.
 
RJKarl said:
Settling for HOF Miller or Odom would be a huge, huge, huge disappointment.
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Even RJ knows what's up, and he's using his magical subjective feelings rather than facts and data.
 
Deacs9394 said:
Your entire argument is based on KenPom...a rating system that is flawed enough to have Penn State ranked 40. It's all relative. Odom did an incredible turnaround showing the guy can coach. Look at their win totals before arrival and then after. And the thing that remains not at all hypocritical in favoring Odom over Miller is experience. Miller has zero Power 6 experience coaching and recruiting. Odom has 7 plus years of it. I've said it many times...I like the home run hire attempt for sure. But if we drop into mid-major level, beyond Oats, I like Odom. The totality of his experience gives me greater confidence than Miller's. There's no eveidence that a better mid-major conference like SoCon will equal success in the Power 6. So to me when it comes to these smaller leagues, it's all a crapshoot. Therefore the full resume, with Power 6 experience matters to me. And I absolutely love that he's Dave Odom's son. That to me is a bonus over Miller. Some of you act like that is for some reason a flaw. Didn't work for his dad, but learned from him. Has years of assistant experience and now doing a turnaround job as a HC. My 4th choice overall for sure.
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Irrelevant. WF has got to get out of the legacy preference business. It cost us with the Bz hire, when Wellman picked a candidate that would agree to keep all of the old assistants on the staff, and it backfired again when WF hired Manning, at least in part because he agreed to keep Chill on the staff. WF needs to hire the coach that affords the program the best chance to be relevant again. I am a GDO fan. Miss those days, but the fact that a potential candidate is GDO's son provides no assurances that Ryan Odom will return WF to glory, just like keeping Rusty or Chill on the staff meant nothing over the past decade.

Ryan Odom or Wes Miller or Nate Oats or John Brannen need to evaluated on their own merit, and not the merit of their family.
 
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And I won't derail another thread to talk about advanced stats, but when all of the top models have a team ranked in the same spot it's strong evidence that the ranking is close to correct.

Penn State is 7-3 in their last ten games and their four losses are: on the road by 4 to the 44th ranked team on the road by 12 to the 10th ranked team and on the road by 4 against the 12th ranked team. Over that same stretch they've won their seven games by an average of double digits.
 
Let's just hire Joey Meyer instead. Saul Smith is an assistant coach now, lets get him! Both from dads who were substantially more successful than Dave Odom.
 
Also for anyone saying that we wouldn't even be considering Wes if he weren't connected to Wake, you have to also concede that there's no way in hell we would consider Odom over him if it weren't for his dad.
 
Debating what I want the investigators to focus more on next -- what department Rafi works for at Wake, or 9394's relation to Odom.

Think I still lean Rafi since 9394 will at least thrown in the occasional post that doesn't blatantly pimp for Ryan Odom being our next coach
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Also for anyone saying that we wouldn't even be considering Wes if he weren't connected to Wake, you have to also concede that there's no way in hell we would consider Odom over him if it weren't for his dad.
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But Odom won that game one time !
 
RJKarl said:
ZERO for 25 against Top 25. By accident, he should have a couple of wins.

Settling for HOF Miller or Odom would be a huge, huge, huge disappointment.
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Yup.

I know this can be a difficult concept for some to grasp, but both of the following can be true: 1. Wes Miller has a much better resume and would be a much better hire than Ryan Odom; and 2. Wes Miller would be a bad hire.
 
wsc8521s said:
Debating what I want the investigators to focus more on next -- what department Rafi works for at Wake, or 9394's relation to Odom.

Think I still lean Rafi since 9394 will at least thrown in the occasional post that doesn't blatantly pimp for Ryan Odom being our next coach
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That said 9394's sudden appearance to spend most of his (or her) time on this board vouching for Odom is a little suspicious
 
wsc8521s said:
That said 9394's sudden appearance to spend most of his (or her) time on this board vouching for Odom is a little suspicious
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GDO might be going fulling psyops on us. Go on local sports radio and defend Manning and then come here to shill his kid.
 
I believe Odom was on the search committee for Manning as well which helps explain that opinion (and for whatever reasons).
 
I can't even think of another coach similar to Odom to compare him to. Massive upset in the NCAAT, three or four years in, no other head coaching experience, never had a top 150 team. Let me know if anyone thinks of a team and we can compare how things shook out for that coach moving forward.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I can't even think of another coach similar to Odom to compare him to. Massive upset in the NCAAT, three or four years in, no other head coaching experience, never had a top 150 team. Let me know if anyone thinks of a team and we can compare how things shook out for that coach moving forward.
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How about Steve Merfeld at Hampton? Pulled a 15/2 upset in his fourth year there in 2001 and steadily improved that program in a truly awful conference.

Then went to Evansville in the Missouri Valley, went 54-91 in five years and has been an assistant ever since.

Hadn't been a P6 assistant though in fairness. Open to other examples
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I can't even think of another coach similar to Odom to compare him to. Massive upset in the NCAAT, three or four years in, no other head coaching experience, never had a top 150 team. Let me know if anyone thinks of a team and we can compare how things shook out for that coach moving forward.
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Considering kenpom didn't exist until 2002 you'd be cutting out a lot of years of the NCAA tournaments history.
 
That's not a bad option, but even Merfield had his team in the top 155 (the year they upset the 2 seed) and top 120 the next season before he departed for Evansville (who peaked at 83 his last year before he was fired).
 
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