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Pro Life / Pro Choice Debate

RJKarl said:
In your or their religion,are people supposed to "kowtow" to a person who has no religion? Who is a bigot? An abuser of women? A proven and continuing racist? A person who breaks the Ten Commandments regularly and for decades?

What kind of religion teaches "kowtowing" to such a person?
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I could be wrong but I think I remember Wrangor saying he didn’t vote for trump and isn’t voting republican until he’s gone. But I don’t know how that squares with being a pro life voter and voting third party or dem.
 
RJKarl said:
In your or their religion,are people supposed to "kowtow" to a person who has no religion? Who is a bigot? An abuser of women? A proven and continuing racist? A person who breaks the Ten Commandments regularly and for decades?

What kind of religion teaches "kowtowing" to such a person?
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The kind of religion that tells you not to ask questions and just do what you are told. Just conditioning for a pretty small step to the disbelief of things like science and facts.
 
We have a fairly high maternal mortality rate for the developed world. Thus, every abortion is arguably "for the health of the mother". At the very least, the 95% would be difficult to verify due to the large number of unreported rapes that take place.
 
DDA said:
I could be wrong but I think I remember Wrangor saying he didn’t vote for trump and isn’t voting republican until he’s gone. But I don’t know how that squares with being a pro life voter and voting third party or dem.
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That's not the point. He said religion makes them kowtow to Trump. All I asked was what kind of religion could possibly demand kowtowing to Trump or man like him who has broken almost all of the basic tenets of religion.
 
RJKarl said:
In your or their religion,are people supposed to "kowtow" to a person who has no religion? Who is a bigot? An abuser of women? A proven and continuing racist? A person who breaks the Ten Commandments regularly and for decades?

What kind of religion teaches "kowtowing" to such a person?
Click to expand...

Evangelicalism emphasizes personal salvation, personal relationship with God, and a personal reading of scripture. "Jesus died for MY sins."

This emphasis on the individual and deemphasis on God and the Church allows individuals to bend religion to support their worldly desires including political desires.
 
RJKarl said:
In your or their religion,are people supposed to "kowtow" to a person who has no religion? Who is a bigot? An abuser of women? A proven and continuing racist? A person who breaks the Ten Commandments regularly and for decades?

What kind of religion teaches "kowtowing" to such a person?
Click to expand...


It’s all ok as long as Trump feeds their sense of persecution and entitlement and enables their bigotry.
 
If you actually look at The Bible, Jesus is very liberal. He was for feeding and educating the poor, loving thy neighbor, peace. He even said taxes were OK. He was a conservationist and said we should be good shepherds of the Earth. He was more liberal than Bernie.
 
4% Interfere with education
7% Not mature enough
8% Don’t want to be single mother
19% Done having children
23% Can’t afford baby
25% Not ready for child

These seem like responsible reasons not to want to be forced to have a child.
 
The bible doesn't teach that abortion is murder. There are several instances in the bible where a fetus is clearly delineated as not a human.

This is not an easy decision for anybody and the morality and ethics are not black and white regardless of how arrogant pious bible thumpers like to shout murder when someone aborts a 7 week old fetus that is just developing human characteristics and isn't close to viability.
 
Wrangor said:
Forced?

Seems like the couple had all the power in the world to prevent the conception of that life.

Of those 5 factors, which of them changed after having sex?

Suddenly became immature? Nope

Became not married? Possible, but I would guess a very small percentage of abortions are from a committed married relationship that obtains a divorce in the 6-14 weeks after finding out the woman is pregnant.

Done having baby? Seems unlikely that would change.

Can’t afford baby? They are now Significantly poorer?

Not ready? Changing your mind is not a reason to end an individuals life.

They are all extremely valid reasons for not having a child. And they should all be considered before you engage sexually because the end result of sex happens to be a baby. If you feel unprepared or unwilling to have a child either don’t have sex, or take the proper precautions. It isn’t as though our birth control system is ineffective. Two forms and it is almost statistically impossible to get pregnant.

Teaching everyone to be a victim of their own willful choices is always a bad move.
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What about their access to birth control? Just because someone is unable to afford it doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to have sex.
 
Wrangor said:
I have never made a biblical argument against abortion. Viability is an awful argument because at different stages of life we are all at different levels of viability. Does someone in a temporary coma lose their right to live? Additionally viability will continue to evolve over time. Does that mean or ethical obligation to life should change.

The life of the unborn is unique and fully human. Given normal nourishment he/she will develop into a fully functioning adult member of society unless unnaturally stopped. Abortion unnaturally ends the life of another human. We will get there one day. Our eyes will be opened to the atrocities we have committed.
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when have conservatives ever been on the right side of history?
 
WakeandBake said:
Weird that God was pretty clear life began when the first breath was taken.
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Mac: [on abortion] It's nobody's choice! It should be left up to God!
Dee: Is he jo..? Is that..? Are you.. joking?
Mac: No, it's not a joke! You remember Genesis? Book two, verse three: And he breatheth into the nostrils of Adam on the first day and it was good.
Dee: Right in his nostrils, huh? Sounds really uncomfortable.
Dennis: [to Mac] You're making an asshole out of yourself.
 
Wrangor said:
I have never made a biblical argument against abortion. Viability is an awful argument because at different stages of life we are all at different levels of viability. Does someone in a temporary coma lose their right to live? Additionally viability will continue to evolve over time. Does that mean or ethical obligation to life should change.

The life of the unborn is unique and fully human. Given normal nourishment he/she will develop into a fully functioning adult member of society unless unnaturally stopped. Abortion unnaturally ends the life of another human. We will get there one day. Our eyes will be opened to the atrocities we have committed.
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What a terrible argument with the temporary coma. This person is just as viable as a newborn baby in that they can survive but need assistance to provide nutrients. Now someone is a long term coma that is on life support then it becomes a grey area.

I don't consider a fertilized egg as fully human just like an egg isn't fully chicken. Morning after pills have no ethical dilemma for me and I think this would be true of most people. Therefore there is some delineation among most people as to the time that a fetus would need to be protected by law.
 
Abortion for me personally is now a bit interesting because we're currently awaiting to adopt, so in essence we're depending on a birth mother to not get an abortion for us to get a child (and, of course, to be matched with her, but that's a different story).

Howevah, her decision to get an abortion or have the child adopted is hers alone and no one should make that decision. An opportunity will hopefully come for us one day, but no one gets to have a say in what the birth mother does other than her.
 
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