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2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

It's so fucking weird to me that Townie loses his mind with outrage over Pete and appears to be just ho-hum about Trump. Talk about derangement.
 
TownieDeac said:
no you stupid dipshit

i've said it at least a half dozen times already

congress won't, in its current form, pass medicare for all or the green new deal

hence why you need a candidate who will start a movement from the ground up, with the tens of millions of nonvoters and disaffected people to unite behind labor to make a difference in the country

collective bargaining and labor stoppage is the only thing that will affect political change going forward. you've got half the dems negotiating with bad faith mcconnell before they even get in office, pelosi setting an absolutely horseshit agenda, and the courts already packed. need a labor forward, organizing candidate. sanders or warren or bust. i'll vote for robo pete when he's the candidate but it just means we'll get a further right guy in the oval office in 2025 when the ship is sinking.
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when will these tens of millions start mobilizing behind Bernie? are they just waiting for the general election
 
MHBDemon said:
Reeeeeepublicannnnnn
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I feel like people might be more receptive to your perspective on here if you made some real arguments instead of just calling everyone a Republican if they don't give full throated support to a 100% DSA agenda. Chris' point is a fair one. First we'd have to agree we are operating in a world where there is a finite set of money we can raise and spend as a country. That doesn't mean austerity, and I think you can make a good empirical argument that some level of debt and deficit spending is fine (look at Japan, for example). But if we aren't in that world, then there is really no point in even discussing policies, just give everyone a million dollars a year and be done with it. But assuming we are in a world where there are at least *some* constraints, it makes sense to think about how we want to allocate our fiscal (and political) space in way that be most likely to do the most good for the most people with the greatest need.

Even if you believe that M4A is the most optimal way to delivery health care (and it might be!), no good faith argument can claim *certainty* that it is better than other options that would also provide universal coverage (and would more similarly mirror successful programs in other wealthy nations). And it's just as possible that a dual payer or competing payer system could be better, depending on a number of variables. And if you are at least able to concede that there's some uncertainty about the best way to go forward, I think a reasonable argument follows that taking a path of less politcal resistance and lower federal cost could free up capital for other urgent priorities, like climate, poverty, and child care.
 
tilt, on multiple occasions, I have said specifically that getting to universal coverage is the goal and a must, but when I say you can't change the entire system (and 1/7 of our economy) overnight or too quickly, I am also labeled like Chris is.

It doesn't matter to far left of the board that I was a member of SHRM and worked with many other HR pros and understand a lot of their concepts. The idea that you can save any size company 15-25% while providing more and better coverage would create a natural groundswell to those programs and relegate private insurance to picking up the supplemental and luxury programs. By doing this, you won't even have to raise taxes.

But being experienced and reasonable is of no consequence. They want what they want; how they want it and they want it now no matter what the consequences.
 
 
I think the best way to help the most people with the greatest need, the global south, and to save the planet, is to abolish capitalism. No amount of good faith discussion with Mr. “but tax rates” is going to convince him of that. There is ample evidence that we need to decommodify housing and healthcare as a means to transitioning away from a capitalist economy. I’m sorry that I don’t view electing the McKinsey consultant as progress.
 
Shooshmoo said:
It's so fucking weird to me that Townie loses his mind with outrage over Pete and appears to be just ho-hum about Trump. Talk about derangement.
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Trump is obviously an evil menace. If I'm objective about him though, the most odious things he's done (concentration camps, drone strikes) were an extension of Obama era policies, and that's why I don't think we should be so reluctant to be critical about the parts of Obama's tenure that are worth scrutinizing. He's not doing Bush era war criminal shit, he's too transparently stupid to do anything other than just tell the truth about going for oil in the region, literally sending tanks to defend oil barracks. He is buying back the votes he lost from his trade war, and for that and for all his financial crimes he should be impeached. I'm far less moved by the Russia and Ukraine stuff than most Dems seem to be.

If any of the above seems ho-hum, it's because I'm still so fucking butthurt over 2016, and think the party and country deserved Trump. Plus we're left with this idiotic narrative about Bernie again in 2020. Bernie gave more keynote speeches on Hillary's behalf in battleground states than Hillary did in the last six months of 2016 leading up to the election after the party torpedoed his candidacy, and the media is trying their best to ignore his surging numbers again this go round. He's leading in California, a state with more delegates than the rest of the early primaries combined and doubled, but the LA times headline on California was about Pete. So forgive me for being frustrated we're reliving 2016 again but with Petebot 2000 and Joe MeToo Biden as our great centrist hope.

Warren should have run in 2016; she would have won then when Bernie begged her to run.
 
Yeah Warren is sure showing this year that she would have rolled right through 2016
 
MHBDemon said:
I think the best way to help the most people with the greatest need, the global south, and to save the planet, is to abolish capitalism. No amount of good faith discussion with Mr. “but tax rates” is going to convince him of that. There is ample evidence that we need to decommodify housing and healthcare as a means to transitioning away from a capitalist economy. I’m sorry that I don’t view electing the McKinsey consultant as progress.
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You'll love this piece: I Was Once a Socialist. Then I Saw How It Worked.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Yeah Warren is sure showing this year that she would have rolled right through 2016
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She’s running a 5x better campaign than Hillary. Meanwhile all the Hillary flunkies fled the Kamala train for Pete. You may yet get your wish!

Pete’s new attack dog Lis is going after Warren’s finances right now, as if starting CFPB and the bankruptcy law weren’t enough credentials.
 
Until we evolve far beyond where we are today, pure socialism is a pipe for those who believe in unicorns. This doesn't mean the current state of capitalism in the US doesn't need a lot of fixing, but without some incentives progress is all but impossible.
 
Here's the youtube video where Brooks was one of the "Social Democrat" voices at the round table.

 
RJKarl said:
Until we evolve far beyond where we are today, pure socialism is a pipe for those who believe in unicorns. This doesn't mean the current state of capitalism in the US doesn't need a lot of fixing, but without some incentives progress is all but impossible.
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ok boomer
 
RJKarl said:
Until we evolve far beyond where we are today, pure socialism is a pipe for those who believe in unicorns. This doesn't mean the current state of capitalism in the US doesn't need a lot of fixing, but without some incentives progress is all but impossible.
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why try?
 
MHBDemon said:
I think the best way to help the most people with the greatest need, the global south, and to save the planet, is to abolish capitalism. No amount of good faith discussion with Mr. “but tax rates” is going to convince him of that. There is ample evidence that we need to decommodify housing and healthcare as a means to transitioning away from a capitalist economy. I’m sorry that I don’t view electing the McKinsey consultant as progress.
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I think the best way to help the most people with the greatest need, the global south, and to save the planet, is to develop a perpetual motion machine. Senator Sanders, if he had an ounce of dignity would support the plan to develop a perpetual motion machine. The fact that he hasn't is a pretty clear indication that he is a fraud.
 
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