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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

Les Grossman said:
Is there a readily available list of criteria that the OWGR committee uses to determine what events they give points to and how they give out those points?
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Nothing concrete, but you can dig around google and find how they have been finicky with the Asian tours about ranking points in recent years.

Their website has a decent history detailing changes and governance, but no concrete criteria since it seems that the board of governors can exercise their discretion in awarding points. And a look at the board of governors and some common sense makes it pretty clear it's going to be a very tough battle to get ranking points. Wouldn't be shocked if it ends up in court.

They aren't going to award ranking points to no cut, 54 hole events. The only time they have allowed 54 hole events in the past is when it is a weather shortened 54 holes that was originally scheduled to be 72 or more.
 
The Majors will want all the best players. If the OWGR isn't identifying them for their own political reasons, those will quickly be disregarded as selection criteria for the Majors.
 
Augusta National is really in a tough position here. Sure they could really harm this thing -- and they are about the only one who can.

But what if they do that and the Saudis increase their investment x10. The relevance of the majors could really take a hit. I predict they will keep quiet about this until next Spring when they see where it is at.
 
Liquid Karma said:
What makes you think the LIV will get OWGR points soon?

Have you looked at the board of governors of the OWGR?

Has the OWGR ever sanctioned 54 hole events?

Define soon? This year? Next year?
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yeah, i don't see LIV getting OWGR points - it's mostly PGA folks on the board
 
How much do rankings really matter if you’re making $$$$$$? Especially for the ones who don’t need rankings to qualify for majors. Even the other guys are probably fine serving as CPU players every week for the big timers for a nice paycheck.
 
PhDeac said:
How much do rankings really matter if you’re making $$$$$$? Especially for the ones who don’t need rankings to qualify for majors. Even the other guys are probably fine serving as CPU players every week for the big timers for a nice paycheck.
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For non-majors? Zilch except for the WGC events, and those lose importance simply because LIV offers way more money and none of the WGC events really carry much prestige.

For majors, most of the field gets in via exemptions based on prior year finish, fedex ranking (obviously not available to players on a different tour), OWGR or open qualifying. All have some sort of past champion exemption ranging from a handful of years to lifetime.

Access to OWGR points is pretty much the only reason the guys 25-75 aren't jumping yet.
 
Liquid Karma said:
For non-majors? Zilch except for the WGC events, and those lose importance simply because LIV offers way more money and none of the WGC events really carry much prestige.

For majors, most of the field gets in via exemptions based on prior year finish, fedex ranking (obviously not available to players on a different tour), OWGR or open qualifying. All have some sort of past champion exemption ranging from a handful of years to lifetime.

Access to OWGR points is pretty much the only reason the guys 25-75 aren't jumping yet.
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Criteria for who gets in a major changes real fast. Always has always will. If a clear top player is left out because of this glitch, they’ll change the criteria again.
 
So that’s a notable but small group that doesn’t include the big timers and ham and eggers.
 
DR is so deeply invested in the LIV tour working that he will recognize no flaws in the concept, the execution, the morality or in the viability of the endeavor.

- All of the golfers are great, even though they aren't.
- The majors will be coveting the participation of the LIV golfers, even though they won't
- Saudis amassed their wealth as the result of savvy financial decisions, when they luckboxed their way into a resource that the world craves.
- Saudi atrocities amount to the same every day political and moral decisions that the US Government has made... Saudis run an evil and oppressive government that is solely geared to retaining power and wealth for the few that were fortunate enough to be born into the hierarchy (which results in the natural connection between the Saudis and our most recent ex-President).

DR's adoration of the LIV tour keeps him on point for his sad/insecure outlook that the world is a better when a few have everything and everyone else has nothing. I hate that world.
 
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DR doesn’t really give a shit about the LIV tour, it’s just another wild position taken so he can brag about himself.
 
scooter84 said:
I honestly don't know why anyone who had ever had any success on the PGA tour would jump to this other tour. If you have not had success on the PGA and need the money, sure. But any player that has had multi-year success on the Tour does not need the money.

Who cares if you win the blankety-blank championship in London on the LIV tour? Winning the Canadian open or at Pebble Beach or Riviera or Bay Hill - those tourneys mean something beyond the money. They have history and prestige. Obviously you don't even have to mention the 4 majors.
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What gets me going is when Wake Forest alums too often believe it's 1965 and post stupid shit like this. It's the same "world ought to be happy with us" mentality that has made us suck for 30 years in hoops.

We aren't very smart because, well, we aren't very smart.

The old school PGA tour completely misread this as well. Should have realized it's a different world and addressed Norman and Phil's issues with the tour rather than challenge them to a duel that is destroying golf. When you're the broke guy (the PGA), flexing just isn't smart. They should include these folks and, if we really are the best country in the world, we can compete.

The only one without a good business plan here is the PGA Tour. It's never a good idea to believe you are richer and stronger than the other fella--especially when you are not.
 
What were their issues with the Tour aside from the Saudis paying more?
 
PhDeac said:
What were their issues with the Tour aside from the Saudis paying more?
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Tons of issues that the tour would not address for years. Not allowing the players to get paid for their name, image, likeness during tour events during the events. Massively undervaluing player pools. Not allowing events to pay appearance fees--when they are so clearly entitled to under the free market. Draconian rules on number of appearances and jamming in way too many events forcing the players to play way too much and be away from their families. 5 hour+ forced pro ams.

The tour vastly controlled the game for their benefit. They went too far for too long at the expense of the players. It was just a matter of time before a competitor decimated the PGA Tour. The tour thought they were golf. They aren't. Golf belongs to everyone and the PGA Tour is just one of many tours. They were the best for awhile now but they know they can't compete in an open marketplace now. They should have realized that and been nice about it to the players and been welcoming to competition rather than to illegally snuff it out.

Treating dissenters as criminals only festered more hatred for them by the players.

Now they are generating hatred from the Saudis--who only wanted to add more golf--not take away from theres. Now, the Tour has picked a fight. Picking a fight with these really rich folks aint smart.
 
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Mickleson thinks the PGA Tour is depriving the players of their "media rights". Phil loves to talk, but he often talks out his ass, and is under the belief that the PGAT is taking "$20 billion" from the players in media rights.

Here is the quote from a February Golf Digest article:

But that would be an opinion, Mickelson said, that doesn’t fully take into account the PGA Tour’s relationship with its players, particularly in the realm of media rights. As ever, he offered, there are two sides to this dispute.

“It’s not public knowledge, all that goes on,” Mickelson said. “But the players don’t have access to their own media. If the tour wanted to end any threat [from Saudi or anywhere else], they could just hand back the media rights to the players. But they would rather throw $25 million here and $40 million there than give back the roughly $20 billion in digital assets they control. Or give up access to the $50-plus million they make every year on their own media channel.

Phil wants his own Mickelson Channel:


“If I had access to my own channel and access to my own media, I would have a camera and microphone on my hat,” he went on. “And on my [caddie] brother’s hat. And on my golf bag with a 360 view. And I would bring the viewers in. They would see and hear what is going on. But none of that happens [currently] because why would any player do that? To make more millions for the tour? They already make enough. The tour only understands leverage. And now the players are getting some of that. So things are changing and will continue to change. I just hope the leverage doesn’t go away. If it does, we’ll be back to the status quo.”
Here is the PGAT's position:

The PGA Tour declined to comment on Mickelson’s comments on Wednesday. However, the tour has previously cited that its business model is consistent with other professional sports leagues in that it relies on media rights to maximize revenue. In a Nov. 21, 2021 memo to players, PGA Tour Commissioner Jay Monahan said 85 percent of the tour’s consolidated revenue is tournament-related, either from sponsors or from domestic and international media. In the memo, Monahan also noted that 55 percent of the tour’s 2021 revenue will be directed back to players.

Here's a link to the article: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/phil-mickelson-pga-tour-media-rights-obnoxious-greed
 
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