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November/Post Bye Woes

myDeaconmyhand said:
Look at our recruiting rankings for the past 6 years and tell me what P5 teams amongst those recruiting levels are consistently winning more than 8 games a year?
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Doesn’t that tell you Wake has more capacity to improve recruiting as a winning program?
 
We should win 10 games+ next year.

That's our capability, and our expectation.

I'd like, with a more mobile Griffis, to run offense #2, not out of desperation, but we are smarter than you already, as our student athletes have to go to class, so they could learn a Plan B offense.

Run the base "slow mesh" offense to crush the VMI's and Vanderbilt's of the world.

Then have the ability to "switch" to the pistol or something different. I mean Ellison was carving them up, and Turner had a nice burst, too. Seems like we have the backs, to run a Plan B offense, if Plan A is getting blown up by wild blitzing.

And throw passes in the flat to our backs - good lord, that is wide open. Hartman threw 1, and he threw it with too much HEAT, no touch. Seems like short throws to backs and the TE would be wide open when they send the wild blitz.
 
If we get our collective heads out of our asses (including the head coach), and win 3 more games this year, then 9-4 says: "we slightly missed the mark on 10+ win expectation we have every year."

Motivation? Senior night is 1 for this week.

Elko and keeping Duke in their place is 2 for next week.

Then bowl game.

And frankly, winning is a LOT more fun than losing. So, go win a few more.
 
We cannot win games against teams with talent like UNC/State, and to some extent Louisville, if we do not play clean games. I mean we can throw the Louisville game out because you're going to lose 99% of the games when 8 turnovers are committed.

We were successful the first part of the year because we protected the ball, didn't commit penalties, and were opportunistic on defense.

Those are the slim margins that we will always be playing with based on our limitations and recruiting class rankings.
 
Complacent Deac said:
We should win 10 games+ next year.

That's our capability, and our expectation.
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Based on what? You can’t just hope and wish these results into existence. We don’t have some magic formula to win 10 games a year with low 3-star and 2 star players. It’s far more likely that last year’s record was a product of multiple favorable circumstances, most importantly a down ACC.
 
I've always thought that we should consistently make bowl games, with 1/5 years striving for 10 wins and competing to get to Charlotte. My expectations were higher initially this year because I thought this was a better overall team than last year. The defense has been better, but the turnovers have just taken away any chance we wanted to have to win those games.

I thoroughly disagree with the expectation of "we should win 10 games+ next year", with a new QB, a new-ish OL, and not knowing which receivers will be back. Way too early to make that assessment.
 
I mean if we go seven and five and are 500 ish in the ACC next year in a rebuilding year that shows a huge amount of growth in the program.
 
The difference between Tunnels MDMH and Sports board MDMH is pretty astonishing until you remember he grew up a Kentucky basketball fan so he's basically a 1%er who believes programs like Wake football should know their place.
 
Even with the bad losses, I have seen nothing so far this season that makes me think we can't continue to win. We have done almost everything wrong the last three games, and two of those games were extremely close against ranked opponents. If we beat Cuse and Duke and win a bowl game, it's still 9 wins. Once we lost to Clemson, there was no chance at ACC title berth. Our schedule is tougher this season than last season.

We have three favorable games each season locked in to our ACC schedule from here on out. Our recruiting is improving. We have shown over multiple QBs that our offense can work at an elite level.

The biggest piece we need to figure out is the defense. No one has produced what Elko did under Clawson. Lambert has shown flashes and an ability to adjust, though I'm not sold on him. The back-7 talent is an issue, we have to use the transfer market more and NIL if we can't get better recruiting there. Our small-state transfers have played at a high level.

Clawson also needs to get way more comfortable with end of half, beginning of 3rd situations. There is no cohesion in strategy there. Given how good he is in other areas, I don't see why this can't improve.
 
Right. Wake didn't get out-talented in any of those games. The only game vs. a team with obviously better talent went to OT. But Wake did not play smart, disciplined football in the last three games. There are only a few teams who can win while losing the turnover battle and committing untimely OL penalties. There's no shame that Wake isn't one of them.
 
This late season swoon is different than the others. Each season should be taken on its own, but past late season losses were far more predictable because of injuries and the opponents were more talented and deeper than WF. In 2019, when Surratt went down against VT (and WF was playing at Clemson next), it was pretty obvious that WF was going to struggle at the end of the season (WF had other injuries as well).

This year, WF is generally healthy, is deeper and was FAVORED in each of the last 3 losses. This 3 game stretch is really the first time when talent differential based on available players did not easily explain the losses. If WF played UNC, NC State or L'ville tomorrow, would expect WF to win those games. In 2019, WF was never ever going to win at Clemson, and was unlikely to win at VT. The 2020 UNC team that made the big comeback against WF was similarly loaded with future NFL players (and again UNC was favored that day). Last year, WF lost at UNC and at Clemson as underdogs at the end of the season. While the results are similar, the scenarios are totally different.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Based on what? You can’t just hope and wish these results into existence. We don’t have some magic formula to win 10 games a year with low 3-star and 2 star players. It’s far more likely that last year’s record was a product of multiple favorable circumstances, most importantly a down ACC.
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As long as Clawson is our coach, assuming he starts taking easy points, with the level of support we have, lack of distractions (it is Winston Salem), new AD is sharp, nice new facilities, academic support, guys we are putting in the NFL, and yes, recruiting is improving a little. I consider Grimes, Claiborne and next year, Antonio Robinson to be 4-star recruits. Agree that, majority, 3 star, but still, we have some talent. Who knows how many stars Micah Mays really is? He seems a High 3-star at worst. Clawson mocks the stars anyway.

I mean, with any decent play the final few games, we win 9 this year. That's still solid, after the recent meltdown in Louisville, and not "wishful thinking."

NIL is a main problem for us imo.

And I agree with you, last year things broke and aligned some, similar to 2006. Until Pitt.
 
Pilchard said:
This late season swoon is different than the others. Each season should be taken on its own, but past late season losses were far more predictable because of injuries and the opponents were more talented and deeper than WF. In 2019, when Surratt went down against VT (and WF was playing at Clemson next), it was pretty obvious that WF was going to struggle at the end of the season (WF had other injuries as well).

This year, WF is generally healthy, is deeper and was FAVORED in each of the last 3 losses. This 3 game stretch is really the first time when talent differential based on available players did not easily explain the losses. If WF played UNC, NC State or L'ville tomorrow, would expect WF to win those games. In 2019, WF was never ever going to win at Clemson, and was unlikely to win at VT. The 2020 UNC team that made the big comeback against WF was similarly loaded with future NFL players (and again UNC was favored that day). Last year, WF lost at UNC and at Clemson as underdogs at the end of the season. While the results are similar, the scenarios are totally different.
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Pilchard, I read and agree with what you say. What I did not hear from you was the reason why the last three weeks have been a disaster. Please elaborate.
 
I don’t agree that Wake is deeper or more talented than Carolina or State. We have better receivers and a better QB than State, otherwise they are better and deeper than us at every position, Carolina might be better and deeper than us at every position besides…linebacker? Louisville is more talented than us on the lines, which decided the game.
 
Feel like we’ve had this discussion before - many of you are completely overrating our team based on Sam and our receiving group. Those other position groups are average at best, and that lack of talent and depth severely limits the success we can have.
 
So you're saying that it was unreasonable to expect wins in three games as the favorite.
 
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